le bici di jaco

Picked up this frame for cheap at a bike salvage yard. $25, I could not resist since it is pretty cool, Italian (?, bottom bracket has Italian threads), and is my size.
There are no discernable decals for identification. There is Campagnolo decal on the chain stay and some remnants on the fork blades (unknown).
Fork steerer tube has Columbus ridges and is stamped with a "3" and backwards "S". Bottom bracket shell is stamped with "54", "53", and backwards "S". Size: seat tube 53cm c-c, 54cm c-c, BB shell 70mm, rear fork 125mm, seat post 27.2mm. Campagnolo drop-outs front and rear (has what I know to be "portacatena" holes; thank you forum members!).

philpeugeot 

Viner?

DiabloScott

That'll be quite the resto effort.
Belgian and Swiss bikes also frequently had Italian threaded BBs.
Very unusual to have the star without one of the points going straight up - ie your star is upside down.
Olmo used to use a similar right-side up logo.
Guerciotti had a star too, but it was kind of distorted and asymmetrical.

le bici di jaco

Sorry, trouble with photos. I have an old Olmo with a star and it is not the same.
Here are more photos:

fabiofarelli

Viner.
https://vineristi.wordpress.com/2011...s-and-crosses/

WGB 

I had one very similar to this that I posted summer of 2019. Unfortunately my computer died and I lost my photos.

I tried a search but couldn't recall the title.

MauriceMoss recognized it and there was an interesting story behind the production. Not saying it's not a Viner just confirming.

Edit: Mine might have been a Vetta
juvela might confirm it??

gugie 

The stars are aligned.
Matches the Viner details in the link.

le bici di jaco

Thanks all! I am not at all familiar with the name so I appreciate the input. Looking at the photos I now think the fork says "Prima Velocissma". Could that be a model, or just a catch phrase for the brand? The BB shell appears to have had heat applied I would assume in order to remove the cups. I will do my best to bring this frame back to life; I think it deserves it.

le bici di jaco

I have just read the link write-up on these frames (Thank you fabiofarelli ). I now know that this is a "Special Professional" with Columbus SL tubing; outstanding! I will make sure it gets done right with a professional paint job (probably keep it the same color) and some period Italian parts. I wonder if there is a way to determine the year. There is that odd backwards "S" that is on the BB shell and steerer tube. Could it be a year indicator or the mark of the actual builder? I now need to see what the actual decals need to be. The fork crown must be fairly early as it is flat, there are bosses for a bottle cage, and braze-on shifter mount bosses. I figure more 70s than 80s with that crown design. Does anyone have a known year example?

unworthy1

Given the portacatena holes in the DOs it can be no earlier than '78 (and most likely '79 is more realistic for earliest date), most of the time those DOs were in use for 1980 models and pretty much dropped out of use by '85. Having recessed Allen brake bolts yet over BB shell cable guides makes me think kind of "in between" so I'd make my guess "1982". Give or take.

noobinsf 

Here is the thread, but it looks like the markings are different: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ry-bike-2.html

bikemig 

Did you buy this in the US or Italy? Gus Betat in New Orleans imported Viners to the US. I saw a number of these bikes. They had, I believe, fairly steep geometry. Folks who raced criteriums liked them a lot.

le bici di jaco

I bought these last 2 frames in New Hampshire. The Viner has a registration decal from Harvard University which considering the frame condition and lack of original decals probably was added much later in its life, making its origin of purchase difficult to place without a serial number. The Moser frame had Texas shop and club decals so there is no link between the two in my opinion. The guy I bought them from was just advertising some old parts and was not what I would consider a collector or flipper, more of a scavenger who probably picked up the frames already stripped. He really didn't know anything about them which is why they were cheap aside from their conditions.

Regardless of this frame being ID'd as a Viner I appreciate you digging up that link on the old chrome frame; very interesting look and research. I think I would have purchased it at that cost which is essentially why I bought this frame (unknown at the time) and the Moser for $75 combined. I might test ride the Moser when complete, but the Viner is a keeper for me to ride.

le bici di jaco

I am sure that this should be asked in a separate forum/thread, but I will strike while the iron is hot. I am new to repairing stuff except that which generally easily unscrews without resorting to extreme methods. I would like to get this frame done quickly if possible and at least expense since I have acquired the proper tools and don't want to bring to a bike shop for this work unless absolutely necessary.

I assume that the BB was unable to be easily removed so I am going to first pretreat with PB blaster penetrant and then wrap in plastic and submerge in ice cold water until thoroughly chilled. I will remove it from the water and immediately warm it up with a heat gun (think higher temperature hair dryer; I use it normally for industrial heat shrink sleeving). I do not want to torch it as it looks like it has undergone that already (would that extreme localized heat cause improper tempering or weakening of frame connections?). I am thinking that going from rapid extremes of temperature will, due to expansion and contraction, help break the corrosive 'weld' between the cups and shell. Does this make sense, or am I nuts?

le bici di jaco

Do you think that the flat fork crown would help to date it? I haven't really looked at any other examples of the frame other than those shown in the previously posted link where there really was no reference as to year. I did notice that the shell nozzle cut-outs were different on my BB shell (oblong) compared to those pictured (circular) aside from cable routing. I have no other frames with a flat fork crown.

unworthy1

not sure since Viner appears to use different crowns as well as other frame bits in a haphazard mode, so may not point to a specific model or year, but for me a flat crown has some extra panache (DeRosa style points!) so I'd consider it a plus!
Can't go wrong with a Columbus SL Italian frame that cost you half of $75 (did I get that right?), it's a steal, despite the rust!

le bici di jaco

Okay, I was not aware of the variety of crown designs. I agree on the looks of the flat crown; I like it. Yes, I bought 2 frames for $75; the Viner was actually $25 (Moser $50), but if you just split the cost, even $37.50 is as you said "a steal". I did have to haggle a little, but in this case the rust was a benefit.

WGB 

noobinsf it was that frame. Obviously my mind is failing.

$75 for both is pretty good!