Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Aaugghh!! This happened again...

Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Aaugghh!! This happened again...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-28-21, 08:41 PM
  #1  
Random11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: North Florida
Posts: 515

Bikes: 2019 Specialized Diverge, 2021 Cervelo Caledonia

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 378 Times in 197 Posts
Aaugghh!! This happened again...

I've complained about this before. There's a roundabout on my daily ride, and yesterday I was approaching it as a car was entering to my left (counterclockwise traffic). I was timing my entry to follow that car when... the car just stopped in the roundabout. so, I jammed on my brakes and stopped too. I didn't want to risk pulling in front of a car that had the right-of-way. With both of us stopped, the car then continued around and I followed. Now I'm thinking I'm partly to blame. Nothing bad happened. It was just annoying. But why did the car stop? Likely because the driver saw me barreling toward the roundabout and didn't want to risk a collision. The drive was really trying to look out for me. So, what should I be doing? I want to keep my speed up, partly because there is often traffic behind me and I take the lane. And of course, who wants to slow down when they are riding anyway? Maybe I need to be a bit less aggressive when following traffic in the roundabout. And instead of being annoyed, maybe I should be thankful that at least some drivers err on the side of caution when encountering bikes on the road.
Random11 is offline  
Likes For Random11:
Old 07-28-21, 09:06 PM
  #2  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18351 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times in 3,346 Posts
Hmmm...

I don't think I've had a car stop while in the round-a-bout.

One that I regularly do a left hand turn in... 2 lane ==> 1 lane ==> cross 2 lane and out, I watch the cross traffic very closely that is supposed to stop. Just to make sure they actually stop (probably had 1 or 2 that went through too close for comfort).

I think your problem was that you were trying to adjust your speed to just pull right behind a car, rather than clearly slowing to allow the car to pass, then going again.

A couple of round-a-bouts have a speed limit of 20 MPH, which is my target speed (more difficult for bikes than cars).
CliffordK is online now  
Old 07-28-21, 09:07 PM
  #3  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
Maybe you could go to the next road planning meeting and remind them roundabouts are only good for cars and suck for everyone else
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Likes For Darth Lefty:
Old 07-28-21, 09:13 PM
  #4  
jayp410
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 16 Posts
I have 2 roundabouts between my house and the highway. First thing to understand is to NEVER expect drivers to act logically or ethically in the roundabout. When driving, I NEVER allow myself to be broadside of another car because on multiple occasions, I have had cars cross over into my lane as if I wasn't even there. Like if I'm on the inside, the outside car has cut me off, or if I'm in the outside (in an exit-only lane) the inside car crosses over and cuts in front of me, like more than 50% of the time. Never trust any driver in a roundabout at any time.
jayp410 is offline  
Old 07-28-21, 09:43 PM
  #5  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 1,683

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 645 Post(s)
Liked 797 Times in 446 Posts
Originally Posted by jayp410
I have 2 roundabouts between my house and the highway. First thing to understand is to NEVER expect drivers to act logically or ethically in the roundabout. When driving, I NEVER allow myself to be broadside of another car because on multiple occasions, I have had cars cross over into my lane as if I wasn't even there. Like if I'm on the inside, the outside car has cut me off, or if I'm in the outside (in an exit-only lane) the inside car crosses over and cuts in front of me, like more than 50% of the time. Never trust any driver in a roundabout at any time.
I alway time my entry into a roundabout so I can take the whole lane - not risking being alongside a car that suddenly decides to exit.
Litespud is offline  
Likes For Litespud:
Old 07-28-21, 09:49 PM
  #6  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Roundabouts seem to be like the metric system and universal healthcare: Americans can’t seem to figure them out even though it’s just normal everywhere else in the world.
caloso is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 12:16 AM
  #7  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times in 1,800 Posts
For US drivers, single lane roundabouts aren't horrible. Just short of horrible.

There's a single lane roundabout near the busiest trailhead of our local MUP. It's the entrance to the local Mellow Johnny's shop and popular gathering spot for cyclists and other folks using the MUP. Many of the drivers using that roundabout also ride bikes. But there are still way too many drivers who have no idea how a roundabout works.

Two lane roundabouts are a menace for everyone. Too many US drivers don't do yield, slow, merge or common courtesy. We're lucky if they're even looking at the road.

The safest way to use a single-lane roundabout is to take the lane for the brief time we'll be in the roundabout. If it's well designed -- no excessively wide shoulder that tempts reckless drivers to speed by on the side -- we're reasonably visible.

But a two-lane (or more) roundabout is just a death trap for cyclists, and probably for motorcyclists. If drivers are afraid of missing their turn they'll panic. They won't simply make another lap around and merge safely to reach their turn. They'll either suddenly slow or stop, or swerve and broadside you.

A single-lane roundabout that's too wide or with a shoulder is just like a two-lane roundabout. In my area about one in 10 drivers will treat it the same way they treat the bike lanes, streetside parking and shoulders -- as their personal passing lane on the right side of the road to scoot around anyone who slows or stops to make a left turn.

Another oddity I've seen in recent years, especially in Texas, is the sudden rightward swerve the moment the driver ahead taps the brakes. I see it so often I'm wondering whether this is some weird thing they're learning in drivers ed, or some sort of word-of-mouth thing concocted by the internet. But anytime I'm in traffic and there's a slowdown -- whether on the highways, two-or-three-lane boulevards, single lane residential streets with shoulders, bike lanes or curbside parking -- someone will swerve right into the shoulder/bike lane/etc., rather than simply not tailgating and braking carefully. I suspect some drivers have "learned it" the same way some kids "learned" to ride bikes against traffic, and continue that practice into adulthood: because their parents, grandparents or teachers told them so, albeit incorrectly.
canklecat is offline  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 07-29-21, 12:43 AM
  #8  
Wildwood 
Veteran, Pacifist
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,327

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3897 Post(s)
Liked 4,828 Times in 2,228 Posts
Our USA auto tradition says that when stopping/approaching at an intersection the vehicle on the right has the right-of-way. Roundabouts in USA are only a couple of decades in use; then add the above stated American inability to understand 'new' things the rest of world finds simple. Although, ....there is nothing simple about a major multi-lane roundabout in London at rush hour, especially for a foreigner 'on the wrong side of the road'. Or anything reasonable about driving in Rome and/or Napoli.


Glad nothing got hurt.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.

Last edited by Wildwood; 07-29-21 at 01:15 AM.
Wildwood is offline  
Likes For Wildwood:
Old 07-29-21, 12:58 AM
  #9  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18351 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times in 3,346 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat
For US drivers, single lane roundabouts aren't horrible. Just short of horrible.
...
Two lane roundabouts are a menace for everyone. Too many US drivers don't do yield, slow, merge or common courtesy. We're lucky if they're even looking at the road.
I actually detest the single lane roundabouts. They just seem so pointless. Often little more than putting a planter in the middle of the street where once there was a stop sign.

The two lane ones seem a little more logical.

I do think the best place for a round-a-bout is whenever there is more than say 2 streets intersecting. So, you've got an extra street branching out (5 or 6 total branches).

Originally Posted by canklecat
Another oddity I've seen in recent years, especially in Texas, is the sudden rightward swerve the moment the driver ahead taps the brakes. I see it so often I'm wondering whether this is some weird thing they're learning in drivers ed, or some sort of word-of-mouth thing concocted by the internet. But anytime I'm in traffic and there's a slowdown -- whether on the highways, two-or-three-lane boulevards, single lane residential streets with shoulders, bike lanes or curbside parking -- someone will swerve right into the shoulder/bike lane/etc., rather than simply not tailgating and braking carefully. I suspect some drivers have "learned it" the same way some kids "learned" to ride bikes against traffic, and continue that practice into adulthood: because their parents, grandparents or teachers told them so, albeit incorrectly.
I haven't thought about that much, but I have learned to think of an "escape" when emergency braking. That wouldn't apply to ordinary traffic though.

And, of course, planning one's stop so nobody is actually harmed.
CliffordK is online now  
Likes For CliffordK:
Old 07-29-21, 04:39 AM
  #10  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,217
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18397 Post(s)
Liked 15,494 Times in 7,317 Posts
We’ve had traffic circles in Philly and S. Jersey for well more than 50 years. A couple of big ones were replaced with protected intersections because people here are dense. There is still a large, busy one near my office. I usually eat lunch in the park in the middle. I see close calls every day.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 07-29-21, 04:49 AM
  #11  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,457
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1741 Post(s)
Liked 1,369 Times in 718 Posts
Seems there is a lack of common sense when people use roundabouts(rab) on a bicycle. Keep in mind a rab is simply a free flowing 4-way intersection. Blasting through at 20mph will likely cause trouble with cagers. When going through a rab take your time and anticipate the move of the drivers around you. Always be prepared to stop. I have ridden in many countries and have not experienced troubles in rabs on a bicycle, including the USA. Of course I look out for my personal safety first and do not consider myself equal to motorcars, and am always courteous towards them. After all they are bigger than me and playground rules apply. Better alive than self righteous and maimed or dead.
TiHabanero is offline  
Likes For TiHabanero:
Old 07-29-21, 04:59 AM
  #12  
RobbiRobbi
Steel City, Steel Bike
 
RobbiRobbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 56

Bikes: 2012 Jamis Coda Sport

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
I actually detest the single lane roundabouts. They just seem so pointless. Often little more than putting a planter in the middle of the street where once there was a stop sign.
I kind of like the single lane ones as alternatives to four-way stops in low traffic areas, but I recently found out some neighborhoods near me put in circles in the middle of the intersections (and signs telling you to go around the circle counter-clockwise) but left up the stop signs. So it’s still a four-way stop but with the extra step of going around the circle?!

I’m also not totally sure how it’s supposed to work because with a regular one you yield to enter the circle and then have the right of way to exit. But with this, are you supposed to wait for someone else to complete their whole turn before going, or is it ok to enter the circle at the same time from opposite sides?
RobbiRobbi is offline  
Likes For RobbiRobbi:
Old 07-29-21, 05:12 AM
  #13  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,506
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3657 Post(s)
Liked 5,393 Times in 2,738 Posts
Originally Posted by Random11
Maybe I need to be a bit less aggressive when following traffic in the roundabout.
Yep. Give the driver some indication you are aware and are going to act predictably. Maybe a nod or lift a hand, make it obvious you are slowing. Lots more close calls here https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 07-29-21, 07:25 AM
  #14  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 216 Posts
When in downtown Indy I have had drivers stop at a multilane intersection with no stoplight/stop sign while I am stationary waiting for the light to change. Cars whizzing by in the other lanes while they try to wave me across, I usually just stare at them like they are crazy and wait until they get mad and pull through in a huff. With these kinds of drivers roundabouts can be dicey at best.
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 07:32 AM
  #15  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,180 Times in 770 Posts
Roundabouts are simple. Look left, turn right.

To the OP...find somewhere else to ride besides the roundabout.
prj71 is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 07:52 AM
  #16  
Charliekeet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 763

Bikes: S-Works Stumpjumper HT Disc, Fuji Absolute, Kona Jake the Snake, '85 Cannondale SR900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked 217 Times in 142 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbiRobbi
I kind of like the single lane ones as alternatives to four-way stops in low traffic areas, but I recently found out some neighborhoods near me put in circles in the middle of the intersections (and signs telling you to go around the circle counter-clockwise) but left up the stop signs. So it’s still a four-way stop but with the extra step of going around the circle?!

I’m also not totally sure how it’s supposed to work because with a regular one you yield to enter the circle and then have the right of way to exit. But with this, are you supposed to wait for someone else to complete their whole turn before going, or is it ok to enter the circle at the same time from opposite sides?
I have always suspected that a LOT of people simply do not know what yield means. And even those who do approach the rotary trying not to stop if at all possible (rather than assuming you WILL have to stop and wait, and then go when it's clear). Hence, more stop sign-controlled entries to the circles.
Charliekeet is offline  
Likes For Charliekeet:
Old 07-29-21, 07:59 AM
  #17  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,687 Times in 2,510 Posts
Traffic circles are better than stop signs that nobody uses. Americans will figure them out eventually.

I probably would have going in front of a car that stopped for me in this instance. Generally I will not.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 08:32 AM
  #18  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 936 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso
Roundabouts seem to be like the metric system and universal healthcare: Americans can’t seem to figure them out even though it’s just normal everywhere else in the world.
And it's one of those things that we don't want to adopt because the rest of the world is doing it.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Likes For Milton Keynes:
Old 07-29-21, 08:36 AM
  #19  
Reflector Guy
Senior Member
 
Reflector Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,341

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito XE, Via Nirone 7, GT Aggressor Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 1,271 Times in 588 Posts
Originally Posted by Charliekeet
I have always suspected that a LOT of people simply do not know what yield means.
I think to a lot of people, the size of one's SUV determines who is supposed to yield, and who is not.
Reflector Guy is offline  
Likes For Reflector Guy:
Old 07-29-21, 08:42 AM
  #20  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,217
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18397 Post(s)
Liked 15,494 Times in 7,317 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
And it's one of those things that we don't want to adopt because the rest of the world is doing it.
I'm 56. I remember being taught about the metric system in school when I was around age 13 in preparation for it being adopted in the U.S.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 08:44 AM
  #21  
drlogik 
Senior Member
 
drlogik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,771

Bikes: '87-ish Pinarello Montello; '89 Nishiki Ariel; '85 Raleigh Wyoming, '16 Wabi Special, '16 Wabi Classic, '14 Kona Cinder Cone

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times in 252 Posts
We have to remember that roundabouts are still an alien concept to Americans. Yes, some cities have them. Some cities have had them for quite some time, but, most drivers are still in the, "I must stop" mindset. I don't have any roundabouts here where I now ride but when I lived in Arizona I did. People out there "generally" drive through correctly.

It was my practice when I lived in Arizona to look at the approaching driver and signal with my hand for them to go. Most of the time that worked fine. Once in a while I got the "I must stop" type driver. Yes, a bit frustrating.
drlogik is offline  
Old 07-29-21, 08:49 AM
  #22  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 936 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
I'm 56. I remember being taught about the metric system in school when I was around age 13 in preparation for it being adopted in the U.S.
Yeah, me too. But it never caught on because people didn't want to give up feet, yards, gallons, and miles.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Likes For Milton Keynes:
Old 07-29-21, 09:14 AM
  #23  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 984 Times in 508 Posts
This happens to me all the time, as well as similar situations where another driver has the right of way but yields to be polite to me.

The law in my state is that cyclists must obey all traffic laws the same as cars. If cyclists and drivers alike would accept the right of way when it’s theirs and yield it when it’s not, there would be very few conflicts.

While I appreciate someone noticing me on the road and trying to be kind, what I really need is for them to follow the law and expect me to do the same. This is the safest way.
Broctoon is offline  
Likes For Broctoon:
Old 07-29-21, 09:23 AM
  #24  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 984 Times in 508 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
I'm 56. I remember being taught about the metric system in school when I was around age 13 in preparation for it being adopted in the U.S.

Broctoon is offline  
Likes For Broctoon:
Old 07-29-21, 09:30 AM
  #25  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,546

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5223 Post(s)
Liked 3,579 Times in 2,341 Posts
rotaries are tough, for sure. each one is different. each community of drivers are different. each cyclist has different techniques & abilities

got a link to google sat view?

take any vids while riding it?

if I had to navigate a roundabout that has pedestrian crossings, I might be inclined to use them, at least once to see if it was safer. especially if there was a cross signal. I have a favorite near me that used to be on a regular 30 mile out-&-back loop I was doing. I got pretty good at navigating it as a 2 wheeled vehicle, altho I admit mistakes. things change so quickly, that, 1 second it's seems like a good idea to launch but then on hind sight, you wish you hadn't


the challenge is the same as in a car. when to enter? what speed to use? (not that a bike has much choice) & using signals



jump to 1 min mark (camera facing back)


I much prefer rotaries made for bikes


jump to 1:27


rumrunn6 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.