Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Training Status??? (IV)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Training Status??? (IV)

Old 05-26-19, 07:09 AM
  #13451  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
I set a really silly goal when I first started riding about 2 1/2 years ago to ride for 3 hours and best 20mph. Went out at 6:30 am to beat the heat and rode about a 3hr loop and got it at 20.2 mph. GPS/Strava had it at 3800 ft for 60mi, but that's a lie. It has to be only maybe 2800 to 3000 ft for the 60mi. Nowhere close to 4k.

I was surprised at how little power on even just a road bike it took to do it. AP was only like 185 and NP like 200. I almost wonder if the meter is reading correctly to go over 20mph over 50ft per mile. Not that hilly, just seems low.

But, actually bothered to force myself to eat and drink on a time schedule and that seemed to help my energy really well.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 07:31 AM
  #13452  
revchuck 
OMC
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
@burnthesheep - Your power sounds about right for that speed.

I long ago developed the habit of at least drinking on a schedule. That's partly, maybe mostly, due to living in the Deep South and having to stay on top of hydration when it's hot and humid AF. I take three hard pulls from the bottle every 15 minutes or so, so I finish a bottle in an hour. I drink less when it's cooler and more when it's really hot - like a bottle every 45 minutes. That gets modified during a hard ride/race, but it's ingrained enough that I'm always looking for a chance to hit the bottle when I can.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 07:58 AM
  #13453  
Hermes
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,425 Posts
2 hour endurance ride yesterday. It is hard to believe that I started the ride with base layer, arm warmers, knee warmers and a wind vest on May 27th in SoCal.
Hermes is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 09:30 AM
  #13454  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
And here on the East Coast, I will sweat out 3 pounds walking out to get the mail.
topflightpro is offline  
Likes For topflightpro:
Old 05-28-19, 09:31 AM
  #13455  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
Same route again yesterday. We did it as a group. A few guys were a bit slower so overall speed was slower than me doing it alone. Two of us pulled a lot.

I think on one pull I pulled for 1/2 hour with the other guy. We had to back off the pace a few times to let people catch up from going over the rollers.

When it went uphill there was the known gentleman's agreement to let me go and then regroup to get in a few intervals.

So, 300 TSS in 3 days. Hot as balls last hour. I leave on those rides at like 6:30 AM. They left at like 8:30. And had some stoppage to wait up for dropped folks.

Good work over the holiday weekend. Found an awesomely smooth section of road to TT practice on. I'll have to drive to it, but it would be great.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 10:02 AM
  #13456  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
2 hour endurance ride yesterday. It is hard to believe that I started the ride with base layer, arm warmers, knee warmers and a wind vest on May 27th in SoCal.
Same deal up here.

Had a really nice holiday weekend. Saturday River Ride with my son, Sunday low and slow with my wife, Monday tempo ride with a few teammates.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 05-28-19, 05:02 PM
  #13457  
Hermes
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,425 Posts
1.5 hour endurance ride Fiesta Island with the same weather as yesterday but windy. I find it interesting that even though Fiesta is essentially an oddly shaped oval, the wind was only at my back for maybe 1/8 of it. The rest of the time it was in my face or cross. I think there must be some topography / mix of land and water that causes the wind to swirl in odd ways. Since I ride against the PM, it does not matter but it is always nice to have the wind at your back at least 50% of the time.
Hermes is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 05:54 PM
  #13458  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
127 pounds sucks. Last hill climb this weekend before a break to train and eat.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 06:33 PM
  #13459  
furiousferret
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb
127 pounds sucks. Last hill climb this weekend before a break to train and eat.
I thought you were my height (5'7") but that's close to impossible with that weight.

I'm trying to get down to about 142, and that's about 2.1 pounds per inch. I'm about 7 pounds off and have about 6 weeks to get there. I could probably get lower but at that point I'm cannibalizing muscle mass. Any tips?
furiousferret is offline  
Old 05-28-19, 06:37 PM
  #13460  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
Originally Posted by furiousferret
I thought you were my height (5'7") but that's close to impossible with that weight.

I'm trying to get down to about 142, and that's about 2.1 pounds per inch. I'm about 7 pounds off and have about 6 weeks to get there. I could probably get lower but at that point I'm cannibalizing muscle mass. Any tips?

5'6" I'm under 2 pounds per inch.

We all eat more than we need to. We just simply do. That doesn't make it fun, but it is doable. Eat wildly clean. Stop before you're full. Realize you have enough fuel in your system for many riding scenarios. It's an eating disorder with an excuse of sport. But I'm surely no slower. Power is all the same.
gsteinb is offline  
Likes For gsteinb:
Old 05-29-19, 08:19 AM
  #13461  
furiousferret
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Thanks.

I probably don't eat clean enough (I don't junk out either) but I do control my portions fairly well.

I definitely have an eating disorder of sorts and can essentially as much as I want without getting full (probably top out around 20 hot dogs). My stomach expands well so I can eat more than everyone else, even as at am half their size. Its generally limited that via tracking on calorie app and a strict diet but on vacation I went a bit crazy; not as bad as the past but there was a 4,000 calorie meal at McDonalds after they gave me too much food (oops, an extra Big Mac meal, no choice but to eat it!).

Noticed the same thing about power; no matter if I'm 170 or 140, my FTP is more or less the same depending on my CTL.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 09:09 AM
  #13462  
Hermes
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,425 Posts
Originally Posted by furiousferret
Thanks.

I probably don't eat clean enough (I don't junk out either) but I do control my portions fairly well.

I definitely have an eating disorder of sorts and can essentially as much as I want without getting full (probably top out around 20 hot dogs). My stomach expands well so I can eat more than everyone else, even as at am half their size. Its generally limited that via tracking on calorie app and a strict diet but on vacation I went a bit crazy; not as bad as the past but there was a 4,000 calorie meal at McDonalds after they gave me too much food (oops, an extra Big Mac meal, no choice but to eat it!).

Noticed the same thing about power; no matter if I'm 170 or 140, my FTP is more or less the same depending on my CTL.
In general, if the body weight or more conservatively, body mass goes down VO2 max goes up - (ml of O2 consumed)/ body weight/mass).
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 05-29-19, 09:14 AM
  #13463  
furiousferret
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
I'll take that!
furiousferret is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 12:58 PM
  #13464  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
Not to be a turd, but that is the units in the formula!

Anyway, I knew going in I would get all three but moved the 3x8 up to 3x10 today while not perfectly fueled or ready. Just the way meetings and crap landed today.

I got two of the three 10 minute hits successfully.

Instead of bricking the third one off the rim a couple minutes in, I tossed in some meaningful shorter efforts on the tail end of the 2x10 min so that my total "work time" was at target.

I'm going to shift my outdoor TT workout to early morning weekend. It's been way way too hot for anything daytime recently. It's been 90's up until 30min before sunset.

I got some sweetness in the mail recently I need to show off once I'm done installing it on the TT bike. Not sure I'm good enough for the bling!
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 01:39 PM
  #13465  
Hermes
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,425 Posts
Then do not be one. mL/(kg·min)

There is a local coach in SD that has an empirical formula to calculate VO2 Max based on climb times of a local hill. So the lower the rider weight, the faster the time (for the same power) and higher VO2 max result. YMMV.
Hermes is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 10:30 PM
  #13466  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Oy I’ve been stymied of late weatherwise. I’ve been needing to get some mock TT efforts in at around 5800 ft. I need a flat course, relatively close to home. Last weekend we were supposed to go camp at Frazier Park so I could ride in the Lockwood Valley. But: rain.

Our friends with the cabin in Big Bear graciously lent us their place, where it snowed one day and rained another. I got out onto a nice stretch of flat by Baldwin Lake in between the snow and rain. I was higher than I wanted to be, at 6700 ft.

Wow that sucked. I was fine at normal efforts but short suprathreshold TT efforts, I just couldn’t breathe. Not wheezing- gasping. Actually had to come out of aero and sit up for stretches of time. Power was 15-20% below my home training elevation of 1200 ft.

My 10 K Effort was better than my 5K though. And no aero anything- no disc, 30 mm deep front wheel, no ski suit, no TT helmet, no shoe overs. Power 18% down over my sea level qualifier time from last year. And sitting up maybe 20% of the time. All that and my time was still a full minute faster than last year’s qualifying time (a race which I won).

So that’s good and I’ve just got to get my **** together learning what it feels like to do these short hard TTs in aero at altitude. Figure out how to cope with how terrible it feels, stay in position, stay focused.

Hoping to make it to Lockwood but the forecast is calling for thunderstorms. Annoying. Might have to settle for a lesser altitude of a hilly course. In a pinch, I could always race Piru.

Ive decided to head to NSG early, to get some work in on the course (with my luck it will rain there too). Physiologically going up a week early has some negatives. But for me, with little experience racing distant venues, the extra prep time will really help.
Heathpack is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 11:14 AM
  #13467  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,933

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2503 Post(s)
Liked 2,948 Times in 1,568 Posts
^
good luck!
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 11:14 AM
  #13468  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,933

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2503 Post(s)
Liked 2,948 Times in 1,568 Posts


does this look fast?


Went to a buddy's house last night to optimize my TT fit (@wktmeow). It was fine on the trainer, but this morning during TTT practice I was sliding forward a bit and my knees were hitting my elbows, which made them flare out which is totally un-aero. Might have to push the seat back a bit.

During one of our two practice runs we clocked a ~30 MPH lap, which was good for fifth place for Fiesta Island on Strava. Thing is, the first four are all the same time from a different TTT team, so it's effectively second. Also, one of our guys is sick so we only had three! Maybe next week we can take it during our final two practices before state champs next weekend.

Also, don't worry, I have a fast front that I was riding today (Hed Jet 60, Corsa Speed 23C and a latex tube).
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Likes For TMonk:
Old 05-30-19, 11:16 AM
  #13469  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
Getting somewhere. My motto on some of these workouts is "free the mind and the legs will follow".

You know from the numbers you're not fatigued. You see your HR ramp and know you'll make it. You just have to tell your mind to *** off and let your legs have at it.

2x20 at 270w today, just 2 min between sets.

A new milestone.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 11:25 AM
  #13470  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Heathpack
Oy I’ve been stymied of late weatherwise. I’ve been needing to get some mock TT efforts in at around 5800 ft. I need a flat course, relatively close to home. Last weekend we were supposed to go camp at Frazier Park so I could ride in the Lockwood Valley. But: rain.

Our friends with the cabin in Big Bear graciously lent us their place, where it snowed one day and rained another. I got out onto a nice stretch of flat by Baldwin Lake in between the snow and rain. I was higher than I wanted to be, at 6700 ft.

Wow that sucked. I was fine at normal efforts but short suprathreshold TT efforts, I just couldn’t breathe. Not wheezing- gasping. Actually had to come out of aero and sit up for stretches of time. Power was 15-20% below my home training elevation of 1200 ft.

My 10 K Effort was better than my 5K though. And no aero anything- no disc, 30 mm deep front wheel, no ski suit, no TT helmet, no shoe overs. Power 18% down over my sea level qualifier time from last year. And sitting up maybe 20% of the time. All that and my time was still a full minute faster than last year’s qualifying time (a race which I won).

So that’s good and I’ve just got to get my **** together learning what it feels like to do these short hard TTs in aero at altitude. Figure out how to cope with how terrible it feels, stay in position, stay focused.

Hoping to make it to Lockwood but the forecast is calling for thunderstorms. Annoying. Might have to settle for a lesser altitude of a hilly course. In a pinch, I could always race Piru.

Ive decided to head to NSG early, to get some work in on the course (with my luck it will rain there too). Physiologically going up a week early has some negatives. But for me, with little experience racing distant venues, the extra prep time will really help.
They say train low, rest high. Not putting out power at altitude is probably not helping much. But perhaps the sleep/rest at altitude can.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 12:20 PM
  #13471  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by Radish_legs
They say train low, rest high. Not putting out power at altitude is probably not helping much. But perhaps the sleep/rest at altitude can.
The point of the altitude work is not training, my race is in two weeks so the training is effectively all done.

The point is data collection- understanding what kind of power decrement I should expect at race altitude, figuring out what my HR is going to do, experiencing the RPE for the race effort at that altitude and what parameters I should be using to pace my races. There are all things that will help me to race technically well.
Heathpack is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 12:49 PM
  #13472  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
T-Monk, I am more intrigued by the garage. It looks like a bed frame behind you with a car of the same color behind it? And I noticed the person doing laundry.
topflightpro is offline  
Likes For topflightpro:
Old 05-30-19, 01:20 PM
  #13473  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso
Yeah, it was super fun. Tons of people in lots of categories: kids, teens, lots of women riders which is awesome to see, old fart roadies like me. The course looped around and swooped into a motocross course so there were these big tables and banked corners. And there was a taco truck. I seriously think I need to get a mountain bike now. There's a series leader jersey for each category and the winner each night gets to wear the kingly robe for the podium. So. Much. Fun.
No cape this week, just a big fat DNF. This week's course was especially rocky in the first half and I flatted before I could get to the flat, smooth dirt road portion where I was going to engage the hyperdrive. The worst part was that I had a tube but no CO2 cartridge or pump with me, so I couldn't even ride the whole course. Just shouldered the bike and walked back to start/finish. The CX bike giveth and the CX bike taketh away. *sad trombone*

But the best part was listening to my son on the way home. He finished 4th again but was only 30 seconds behind 3d and he spent most of the ride home dissecting the race and thinking about where he lost time, where he took a good line vs. a bad line. It's awesome to hear him so excited about it.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 05-30-19, 01:43 PM
  #13474  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk


does this look fast?

yes
Heathpack is offline  
Old 05-30-19, 01:56 PM
  #13475  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
30 min of over/under intervals on the TT bike for me today. 5 min each at 112%/90%. Felt easy at first and then it felt pretty hard.

Heathpack is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.