Help Identify Old Touring Frame - Larry Ruble
10-19-20, 10:22 PM
#1
Old Bike Craphound
Thread Starter
Help Identify Old Touring Frame - Larry Ruble
I bought this old touring frame from a fellow craphound (not a very reputable one, it turned out), and after carving back a little of the sloppy repaint it revealed a mystery:
Larry Ruble JSC 063 "serial number"
Where you might expect to see a serial number it has the name "Larry Ruble" and "063 JSC" stamped on the 68mm bottom bracket with standard English threading. Mr. Google tells me that Larry Ruble was a pioneer in the development of mountain bikes in the Vancouver, Canada area and decades ago, he owned a bicycle store in Maple Ridge (municipality near Vancouver). My guess is that this bike predates the mountain bike period. To my eye, it has the decorated style of the 1970s, but so many braze-ons that it seems more like the mid 1980s. None of the components that were on the bike when I bought it are original, so I have only the frame and its stamping to try and identify. My guess is that it may be a custom made touring frame for Larry himself, or for sale at his store, but that is just my guessing.
It seems that Larry Ruble may still be involved in the bike scene in Vancouver, but my (minor) efforts to locate him have not been successful. If you can connect me to him, I would love to know if he can provide more information about this frameset. Failing that, I have posted photos of many of the details of the frame to see if anyone can help me understand what I have. It seems nice and from the era that I usually enjoy, but it had some hard times before I bought it, and requires some attention to address the missing brake bridge (more on that disaster in a follow-up post).
Nice lugs, lots of braze-ons, almost wrap-around seat stay ends, long wheelbase
Seat clamp lug details: 27.2mm seat post
Headtube details (sized for 1" headset)
Bottom Bracket Details
Shimano SF dropouts (front and rear) with double eyelets (currently 120mm OLD spacing, but my guess is that may not be original), and hex nut details on RD cable stop
bottle cage braze-on on bottom of DT (and a spider, for Halloween)
Seat stays almost wrap around seat clamp lug
Front of fork crown details
Top of fork crown details
Any clues or connection to Larry Ruble would be appreciated. And if an additional photo of any particular detail would be of help, just let me know.
-Will
Larry Ruble JSC 063 "serial number"
Where you might expect to see a serial number it has the name "Larry Ruble" and "063 JSC" stamped on the 68mm bottom bracket with standard English threading. Mr. Google tells me that Larry Ruble was a pioneer in the development of mountain bikes in the Vancouver, Canada area and decades ago, he owned a bicycle store in Maple Ridge (municipality near Vancouver). My guess is that this bike predates the mountain bike period. To my eye, it has the decorated style of the 1970s, but so many braze-ons that it seems more like the mid 1980s. None of the components that were on the bike when I bought it are original, so I have only the frame and its stamping to try and identify. My guess is that it may be a custom made touring frame for Larry himself, or for sale at his store, but that is just my guessing.
It seems that Larry Ruble may still be involved in the bike scene in Vancouver, but my (minor) efforts to locate him have not been successful. If you can connect me to him, I would love to know if he can provide more information about this frameset. Failing that, I have posted photos of many of the details of the frame to see if anyone can help me understand what I have. It seems nice and from the era that I usually enjoy, but it had some hard times before I bought it, and requires some attention to address the missing brake bridge (more on that disaster in a follow-up post).
Nice lugs, lots of braze-ons, almost wrap-around seat stay ends, long wheelbase
Seat clamp lug details: 27.2mm seat post
Headtube details (sized for 1" headset)
Bottom Bracket Details
Shimano SF dropouts (front and rear) with double eyelets (currently 120mm OLD spacing, but my guess is that may not be original), and hex nut details on RD cable stop
bottle cage braze-on on bottom of DT (and a spider, for Halloween)
Seat stays almost wrap around seat clamp lug
Front of fork crown details
Top of fork crown details
Any clues or connection to Larry Ruble would be appreciated. And if an additional photo of any particular detail would be of help, just let me know.
-Will
10-20-20, 04:35 AM
#2
Full Member
Great pictures and really interesting frame and story. Lots of interesting features on that frame! Hope you are able to turn up more information and get that brake bridge fixed to your satisfaction. I had some luck pulling out a broken drop out alignment screw like that by turning --very small turns--with pliers after loosening with some penetrating oil, hope you are able to do the same or perhaps there are even better solutions.BTW, I did some googling too, and there is a Larry Ruble from Vancouver on both Facebook and Linkedin who is likely the guy you are looking for. In 1994 the Rocky Mountain Bicycles catalog profiles him as their QC Engineer: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...+Catalogue.pdf Also saw a brief thread on The Cabe that indicates Larry Ruble owned a small shop that built "CBS" road bikes. Unfortunately "CBS" is difficult to web search. Would be great to hear more about this and possibly from Larry himself!
10-20-20, 09:24 AM
#3
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10-20-20, 09:55 AM
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I have no information, but what a cool find! Clearly a quality frame...
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10-20-20, 10:35 AM
#5
Senior Member
Definitely time to call in Scooby and those darned kids! And definitely an interesting/cool find.
I'd say it could be an original build from about '78-'82-ish? Top tube brake casing guides were becoming more common on higher-end production bikes by '80 or so. By mid-'80s I'd expect a new handbuilt/custom frame might be more likely have under-bb cable guides, which was more common on production frames by '84ish. By mid-'80s you'd also be more likely to see dt lever/stop bz-ons, where this only has an under-tube stopper for a clamp-mount shifter/stop. The rear rack bz-ons on the seat stays were also being spec'd on higher-end production touring frames by '82.
Of course, being a one-off, all that is dependent on the original buyer.
The very thin seat lug slot is a show-off move that I don't see very often. There's very little allowance there for an improperly-bored, slightly-oversized seat tube, or a slightly-undersized seatpost. Hard to tell for sure in the photo, but the sides look parallel to each other, so the previous fit must have been OK. Once you get this cleaned and sorted, make sure you use a seatpost that fits _just_ right, or is a little on the tight side. Even just a little undersized and you might have a hard time keeping it from slipping.
'Twere it mine, I'd be kinda giddy waiting to find out what's under all that craptastic paint.
I'd say it could be an original build from about '78-'82-ish? Top tube brake casing guides were becoming more common on higher-end production bikes by '80 or so. By mid-'80s I'd expect a new handbuilt/custom frame might be more likely have under-bb cable guides, which was more common on production frames by '84ish. By mid-'80s you'd also be more likely to see dt lever/stop bz-ons, where this only has an under-tube stopper for a clamp-mount shifter/stop. The rear rack bz-ons on the seat stays were also being spec'd on higher-end production touring frames by '82.
Of course, being a one-off, all that is dependent on the original buyer.
The very thin seat lug slot is a show-off move that I don't see very often. There's very little allowance there for an improperly-bored, slightly-oversized seat tube, or a slightly-undersized seatpost. Hard to tell for sure in the photo, but the sides look parallel to each other, so the previous fit must have been OK. Once you get this cleaned and sorted, make sure you use a seatpost that fits _just_ right, or is a little on the tight side. Even just a little undersized and you might have a hard time keeping it from slipping.
'Twere it mine, I'd be kinda giddy waiting to find out what's under all that craptastic paint.
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10-20-20, 03:49 PM
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There is a brief write-up on Canadian frame builders of the 70s and 80s, including CBS, at https://medium.com/@labicycletta/map...s-df97dd17d524. IIRC, CBS stood for Canadian Bicycle Specialists, and not Canadian Bicycle Specialties, which is a company in Toronto that builds Mariposa frames.
I didn't know Larry, but I knew Gay Wise, who was Larry's partner in the bike shop (possibly named Larry & Gay's?) in the 70s. At some point around 1980 I think, Larry left the business and Tony Hoar became Gay's partner in the business and also Gay's husband. Tony was a former top-level racer from England, and Gay was also a fairly keen rider. They sponsored a women's road racing team in the early 80s. My wife was on the team and still has her 1982 team issue CBS, built by Koichiro Seki. I don't remember Tony building frames at that time, but I know he did start building at some point because a friend has one of his frames. I posted some photos of a Tony Hoar CBS and a Koichiro CBS in a Flickr album of Canadian bikes here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/577760...57711497633436. Tony passed away a year or two ago, but AFAIK Gay is still around. She might have some idea of who made your frame, and would probably know how to reach Larry if he's still around. These folks would be in their 80s now.
A few years ago I bought (from the original owner) a custom built CBS touring frame of about the same vintage as yours. I've since sold it, and don't recall much in the way of frame details or stampings, but a friend of mine now owns it and I can check whether it has any similarities to your frame.
I suppose JSC would logically be the initials of the builder, and Larry the original owner. In the photo of the bottom bracket, does that look like the original red primer, and does it look like the Larry Ruble stamping was done before the primer was applied? There were not many local Vancouver frame builders in those days (or now), and none that I can think of with those initials. A serial number of 063 seems low, but it's hard to say what it might indicate.
I didn't know Larry, but I knew Gay Wise, who was Larry's partner in the bike shop (possibly named Larry & Gay's?) in the 70s. At some point around 1980 I think, Larry left the business and Tony Hoar became Gay's partner in the business and also Gay's husband. Tony was a former top-level racer from England, and Gay was also a fairly keen rider. They sponsored a women's road racing team in the early 80s. My wife was on the team and still has her 1982 team issue CBS, built by Koichiro Seki. I don't remember Tony building frames at that time, but I know he did start building at some point because a friend has one of his frames. I posted some photos of a Tony Hoar CBS and a Koichiro CBS in a Flickr album of Canadian bikes here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/577760...57711497633436. Tony passed away a year or two ago, but AFAIK Gay is still around. She might have some idea of who made your frame, and would probably know how to reach Larry if he's still around. These folks would be in their 80s now.
A few years ago I bought (from the original owner) a custom built CBS touring frame of about the same vintage as yours. I've since sold it, and don't recall much in the way of frame details or stampings, but a friend of mine now owns it and I can check whether it has any similarities to your frame.
I suppose JSC would logically be the initials of the builder, and Larry the original owner. In the photo of the bottom bracket, does that look like the original red primer, and does it look like the Larry Ruble stamping was done before the primer was applied? There were not many local Vancouver frame builders in those days (or now), and none that I can think of with those initials. A serial number of 063 seems low, but it's hard to say what it might indicate.
10-20-20, 08:56 PM
#7
Old Bike Craphound
Thread Starter
There is a brief write-up on Canadian frame builders of the 70s and 80s, including CBS, at https://medium.com/@labicycletta/map...s-df97dd17d524. IIRC, CBS stood for Canadian Bicycle Specialists, and not Canadian Bicycle Specialties, which is a company in Toronto that builds Mariposa frames.
I didn't know Larry, but I knew Gay Wise, who was Larry's partner in the bike shop (possibly named Larry & Gay's?) in the 70s. At some point around 1980 I think, Larry left the business and Tony Hoar became Gay's partner in the business and also Gay's husband. Tony was a former top-level racer from England, and Gay was also a fairly keen rider. They sponsored a women's road racing team in the early 80s. My wife was on the team and still has her 1982 team issue CBS, built by Koichiro Seki. I don't remember Tony building frames at that time, but I know he did start building at some point because a friend has one of his frames. I posted some photos of a Tony Hoar CBS and a Koichiro CBS in a Flickr album of Canadian bikes here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/577760...57711497633436. Tony passed away a year or two ago, but AFAIK Gay is still around. She might have some idea of who made your frame, and would probably know how to reach Larry if he's still around. These folks would be in their 80s now.
A few years ago I bought (from the original owner) a custom built CBS touring frame of about the same vintage as yours. I've since sold it, and don't recall much in the way of frame details or stampings, but a friend of mine now owns it and I can check whether it has any similarities to your frame.
I suppose JSC would logically be the initials of the builder, and Larry the original owner. In the photo of the bottom bracket, does that look like the original red primer, and does it look like the Larry Ruble stamping was done before the primer was applied? There were not many local Vancouver frame builders in those days (or now), and none that I can think of with those initials. A serial number of 063 seems low, but it's hard to say what it might indicate.
I didn't know Larry, but I knew Gay Wise, who was Larry's partner in the bike shop (possibly named Larry & Gay's?) in the 70s. At some point around 1980 I think, Larry left the business and Tony Hoar became Gay's partner in the business and also Gay's husband. Tony was a former top-level racer from England, and Gay was also a fairly keen rider. They sponsored a women's road racing team in the early 80s. My wife was on the team and still has her 1982 team issue CBS, built by Koichiro Seki. I don't remember Tony building frames at that time, but I know he did start building at some point because a friend has one of his frames. I posted some photos of a Tony Hoar CBS and a Koichiro CBS in a Flickr album of Canadian bikes here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/577760...57711497633436. Tony passed away a year or two ago, but AFAIK Gay is still around. She might have some idea of who made your frame, and would probably know how to reach Larry if he's still around. These folks would be in their 80s now.
A few years ago I bought (from the original owner) a custom built CBS touring frame of about the same vintage as yours. I've since sold it, and don't recall much in the way of frame details or stampings, but a friend of mine now owns it and I can check whether it has any similarities to your frame.
I suppose JSC would logically be the initials of the builder, and Larry the original owner. In the photo of the bottom bracket, does that look like the original red primer, and does it look like the Larry Ruble stamping was done before the primer was applied? There were not many local Vancouver frame builders in those days (or now), and none that I can think of with those initials. A serial number of 063 seems low, but it's hard to say what it might indicate.
I did try and message Larry Ruble through LinkedIn, but got no reply (so far). I am not on facebook, but I could not find anything that I could view. I think I might go ask the guys at Super Champion Bikes on Main, as they seem to be connected to some of the older Vancouver road bike builders.
I really appreciate the contributions of all, and I will post any more details I can glean.
-Will
Last edited by Random Tandem; 10-20-20 at 09:13 PM.
