Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

How far is "OK" to ride the wrong way?

Search
Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

How far is "OK" to ride the wrong way?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-31-07, 01:32 PM
  #1  
Photosmith
Recreational rider
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 115

Bikes: 2007 Specialized Globe

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How far is "OK" to ride the wrong way?

A few weeks ago I purchased my first bicycle. I've mainly been using it at the break of dawn when it's only 85 degrees or so for aerobic fitness but I like the idea of using it for commuting and today I did my first car-substitute chore by returning some videos to my neighborhood video store. Rather than trying to make an elaborate descrition of my neighborhood I made a screen capture in my GPS software which should help illustrate:



So basically my house is in the neighborhood at the south end of this picture and the video store is actually where I drew the yellow star. Yes, my GPS software uses satelite pictures from before the store was built. So anyway, it's about 1.25 miles round-trip from my house to the video store, so that's either an annoying 19 minute walk or an enjoyable 6 minute ride.

This being the first time I have ever ridden there, the ride there was fine, I exited the neighborhood, pulled into the bike lane, rode that whole 640 feet up to the video store driveway then pulled in and dropped my videos in the return slot. Only when I turned around to head home did I realize I would be on the wrong side of the street! Not wanting to take a car head-on or anything, I chose to ride on the sidewalk instead and figured if I encountered anyone, I'd just dismount and walk my bike past them in the gravel. Being that it was already 100+ degrees in the mid-day sun and it's only a 640 foot, 30 second ride on the sidewalk, I didn't encounter anyone.

Still, it left me puzzled as to how to deal with this. Surely it doesn't make a lot of sense to have to ride another quarter mile east to the next intersection, wait to cross, then ride the nearly a third of a mile back on the north side of the street only to wait again at another intersection just to get back to my neighborhood. Worse still, a ton of the roads are being ripped up and widened all around my neighborhood and although this particular street is completed and has bike lanes, many streets only have a bike lane and/or sidewalk on one side of the street to begin with.

So what say the commuting experts - how do you deal with situations like this where it's either impossible to find a right-way lane or would result in riding 4x as far just to get where you're going by trying to find right side lanes?
Photosmith is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:15 PM
  #2  
idcruiserman
Mmmmm potatoes
 
idcruiserman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Take the mountain bike and ride the hypotenuse.
idcruiserman is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:16 PM
  #3  
divergence
del dot
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 211

Bikes: Tour Easy

Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Even a hardline vehicular cyclist will tell you there's nothing wrong with riding on the sidewalk for a short stretch...just go slow (about the speed of a jogger is a good limit), yield to pedestrians, and be very careful at intersections, including driveways.

From your satellite photo, the stretch of sidewalk you used looks pretty safe, since there are are no intersections or driveways. (Except for the turn at the end onto the southbound street, of course...and you will have to be alert there, since you'll be entering that intersection from a direction than no one expects.)

I would still probably head east on the road until I could make a U-turn...but that's just a personal preference. Taking the sidewalk west looks harmless enough in this case.

One thing you never want to do is ride the wrong way on the road itself. That includes the roads you mentioned with bike lanes on one side; if you're going the direction with no bike lane, just ride as you would on any other road without a bike lane.

Last edited by divergence; 08-31-07 at 02:26 PM.
divergence is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:24 PM
  #4  
noisebeam
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Totally reasonable to ride on the sidewalk for short distances between intersections, especially for this specific route with no driveways or other intersections along the way.

Not wise (as you obviously noted) to choose the road for wrong way riding.

Another more recreational choice for the return trip would be to not follow they way you came, but take a right from the video store and go around the block into a different collector road for the neighborhood, with only right turns needed.

Al

Last edited by noisebeam; 08-31-07 at 02:35 PM.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:25 PM
  #5  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I have a mile long stretch on a busy road that I use the sidewalk for. Not commuting but for other rides. It connects to a trail on the same side. No point in crossing over and having to cross back over. Go slow and stay aware.
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:26 PM
  #6  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,267
Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts
You need an intersection to get to the other side of the street. You can pull out of the driveway, just as a car driver, then stay near the centerline instead of going to the curb (since the intersection is so close by), and make your vehicular left turn from there as appropriate. Same things as you would do when driving or riding a motorcycle, say.

However, all that may seem a little scary to someone who's new to cycling. A sidewalk is fine if you go slow, yield to pedestrian and treat all driveways with care. I do it often for short stretches when crossing is inconvenient.
chephy is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:28 PM
  #7  
whatsmyname
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wouldn't beat myself up about it so long as you're not being a ******. It looks like the kind of neighborhood where people don't walk along the sidewalks much anyway - correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a dividing strip down the middle of the main road that means you can't just ride to the correct side of the road (not that hopping 4 lanes of traffic in 500 ft is much fun)?
whatsmyname is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:33 PM
  #8  
unixpro
Laid back bent rider
 
unixpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Burien, WA
Posts: 1,134

Bikes: Bacchetta Giro 20

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a short stretch on my commute where I ride on the sidewalk because the road is one-way going the wrong way, and the alternative route is about half a mile longer, takes me up a hill, and forces a left turn onto a busy road at an uncontrolled intersection. I have absolutely no problem doing this short distance because (1) it's 6:30 AM and there's nobody else on the road, (2) there are no driveways, and (3) I feel it's actually safer for me. I do go slower because there is one shop, a bar actually, where the owner shows up early and sweeps off the walk in front of his business. He has an iron gate that opens onto the sidewalk and if he did that while I wasn't paying attention and I ran into it, it could be painful.

Doing a short run on a sidewalk is fine as long as you're careful.
unixpro is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:38 PM
  #9  
noisebeam
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
Yes, my GPS software uses satelite pictures from before the store was built.
You can't fool us. We know it's the empty lot you buy your daily fix at.

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:42 PM
  #10  
mtnwalker
Senior Member
 
mtnwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: '84 Centurion Accordo RS, '06 Gary Fisher Marlin, '06 Schwinn Fastback 27, '06 Litespeed Teramo

Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
Being that it was already 100+ degrees in the mid-day sun and it's only a 640 foot, 30 second ride on the sidewalk, I didn't encounter anyone.
To answer your question that is 640 feet and 30 seconds too long to ride the wrong way of the street.
Take the long way around. It builds character.
mtnwalker is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:45 PM
  #11  
lil brown bat
Senior Member
 
lil brown bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston (sort of)
Posts: 3,878

Bikes: 1 road, 1 Urban Assault Vehicle

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by idcruiserman
Take the mountain bike and ride the hypotenuse.
bonus points for using the word hypotenuse in a BF post!
lil brown bat is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:51 PM
  #12  
noisebeam
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
A few weeks ago I purchased my first bicycle.
If I can assume from this you are relatively inexperience in cycling around metro-Phx...

Before you can jump onto high speed arterials and follow vehicular rules, one needs to gain experiece on less busy and slower streets. Some folks may suggest fairly challenging manuevers, merging across several lanes, left turns at arterial intersections, etc. All these can be done with safety and comfort, but it does take some practice to get that comfort.

I rode in metro-Phx for several months only sticking to residential streets, practicing the same type of communication and skills required on busier ones. (Look behind you and signal even when no one is there, etc.) Then taking those skills on the busier streets during non-rush hours (like this weekend morning errand) Step into things at your own comfort level and don't feel pressured that you need to do things the experienced way right off the bat. No one does that. On the flip side if you never push your comfort zone a tiny bit and keep doing it the same way (sticking to residental and sidewalks) you won't gain the experience. You will know when its right to try.

It sounds like you are on the right track given the thought you have put into your post.

Al

Last edited by noisebeam; 08-31-07 at 02:57 PM.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:56 PM
  #13  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,798

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl

Liked 1,978 Times in 1,138 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
Not wanting to take a car head-on or anything...
Well, yeah, and that's no good, but the bigger danger in wrong way riding is that turning traffic won't look for you because you're not where anything should be.

TCS
tcs is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 03:11 PM
  #14  
dwainedibbly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: northern Florida, USA
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like the idea of heading east from the video store & returning to your neighborhood via another route, if there is one that will work. Otherwise, on the return trip I would do the sidewalk thing just as you did. (Is that sidewalk as far off the road as it looks from the satellite image?) Respect other sidewalk users, etc, etc, etc, and you'll be fine.

I also like that even though you're a new cyclist, you're asking the right questions.
dwainedibbly is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:26 PM
  #15  
Photosmith
Recreational rider
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 115

Bikes: 2007 Specialized Globe

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by idcruiserman
Take the mountain bike and ride the hypotenuse.
I'd be tempted to if it wasn't private property and covered in thorny dead plants. I have enough trouble with flat tires even sticking to paved roads unfortunately.

Originally Posted by noisebeam
Totally reasonable to ride on the sidewalk for short distances between intersections, especially for this specific route with no driveways or other intersections along the way.

Not wise (as you obviously noted) to choose the road for wrong way riding.

Another more recreational choice for the return trip would be to not follow they way you came, but take a right from the video store and go around the block into a different collector road for the neighborhood, with only right turns needed.

Al
Thanks for all the tips and advice. Good call on the all right turns, although that is a longer route, but when the weather isn't so hot and I'm not in a hurry, longer isn't a big deal I suppose.

Originally Posted by whatsmyname
I wouldn't beat myself up about it so long as you're not being a ******. It looks like the kind of neighborhood where people don't walk along the sidewalks much anyway - correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a dividing strip down the middle of the main road that means you can't just ride to the correct side of the road (not that hopping 4 lanes of traffic in 500 ft is much fun)?
Yeah, Phoenix in the summertime isn't much of a walking town, especially out in the 'burbs. I definitely try to err on the side of being as polite as possible and yielding to other folks when I can. The road does have a raised median, but I guess I could pull out like a car and either ride in the median itself or cross all the way (actually 6 lanes + center lane) then cross back. I think in the mean time I'll probably stick to just going real slow along the sidewalk though.

Originally Posted by mtnwalker
To answer your question that is 640 feet and 30 seconds too long to ride the wrong way of the street.
Take the long way around. It builds character.
Yeah I know, but when it's this hot, you only have a little over 5 minutes or so before you start to sweat and I hate the idea of having to change clothes and take a shower just for such a short ride. I may take the long way once it cools down though! Summer's nearly over (finally).

Originally Posted by noisebeam
If I can assume from this you are relatively inexperience in cycling around metro-Phx...

Before you can jump onto high speed arterials and follow vehicular rules, one needs to gain experiece on less busy and slower streets. Some folks may suggest fairly challenging manuevers, merging across several lanes, left turns at arterial intersections, etc. All these can be done with safety and comfort, but it does take some practice to get that comfort.

It sounds like you are on the right track given the thought you have put into your post.
Thanks. My parents were always very anti-bicycle when I was growing up and my dad would quote stats on how a quarter of all traffic fatalities were due to car versus ped/bike collisions and whatever. I think the real number is more like 10% but either way, I grew up with a healthy respect (fear?) of automobiles and try to take whatever means needed to keep myself safe and sound while not spoiling the pure joy of riding in the first place. I am fortunate to be close to one of the canals that is paved, which gives me a place to ride my heart out without any risk of getting hit by a motorized vehicle.

Thanks everybody, I'm sure a lot of you get tired of answering dumb questions, but I appreciate the kindness and patience of others!
Photosmith is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 05:16 PM
  #16  
Mr. Underbridge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,369

Bikes: 2003 Giant OCR2

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs
Well, yeah, and that's no good, but the bigger danger in wrong way riding is that turning traffic won't look for you because you're not where anything should be.

TCS
Very true, though in this case the guy's not crossing any intersections (unless my mapreading skills have deteriorated).

I'm a big 'DONT RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK!!!' kind of guy, but cases like this even I have no problem with as long as you keep the bike at coasting speed.
Mr. Underbridge is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 05:25 PM
  #17  
zonatandem
Senior Member
 
zonatandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,016

Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single

Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 14 Posts
A bicycle is a vehicle and as such is not allowed on sidewalk (yeah, and Phx is no exception).
zonatandem is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 07:03 PM
  #18  
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: all the way down under
Posts: 4,276

Bikes: several

Liked 702 Times in 377 Posts
I would have done pretty much the same. For the sake of 600-odd feet on a busy arterial I'd just take the sidewalk.
__________________
"Surely one can love his own country without becoming hopelessly lost in an all-consuming flame of narrow-minded nationalism" - Fred Birchmore
Cyclaholic is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 06:21 AM
  #19  
Rosie8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: central AZ Prescott Valley
Posts: 374

Bikes: Giant Simple 7

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Since it's been 113 in Phoenix lately, I think early morning riding and using the sidewalk at a slow pace, yielding to peds, etc. is fine. Goatheads, cactus, rattlers in the fields would make me stick to the road or a short hop on the sidewalk.
Rosie8 is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 07:39 AM
  #20  
ax0n
Trans-Urban Velocommando
 
ax0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lenexa, KS
Posts: 2,400

Bikes: 06 Trek 1200 - 98 DB Outlook - 99 DB Sorrento

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chephy
You need an intersection to get to the other side of the street. You can pull out of the driveway, just as a car driver, then stay near the centerline instead of going to the curb (since the intersection is so close by), and make your vehicular left turn from there as appropriate. Same things as you would do when driving or riding a motorcycle, say.

However, all that may seem a little scary to someone who's new to cycling. A sidewalk is fine if you go slow, yield to pedestrian and treat all driveways with care. I do it often for short stretches when crossing is inconvenient.
My thoughts exactly. I've been at this for about a year and I'm comfy sharing the road with cars and reading motorists. I still may use a sidewalk in this situation, at least when traffic isn't light.

I also have some stretches of one-way where I just ride half a block the wrong way on the sidewalk downtown. I stay behind or with pedestrians, stay away from building entrance/exits and pay close attention. There's no sense in riding almost 1/3 mile to get all the way around a block on the road when you can ride 400 feet on the sidewalk to your destination.

The sidewalk is a great thing for cyclists to keep in their bag of tricks, but its use should be limited. I rank it up there with taking shortcuts through grass to get between two roads that almost connect to each other (like back-to-back cul-de-sacs or a road that dead-ends)
ax0n is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 10:03 AM
  #21  
whatsmyname
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
The road does have a raised median, but I guess I could pull out like a car and either ride in the median itself or cross all the way (actually 6 lanes + center lane) then cross back. I think in the mean time I'll probably stick to just going real slow along the sidewalk though.
No, you're totally right, there's no point in going through the whole rigmarole.

IMO, the thing that people really object to about bikes on sidewalks is when cyclists bear down on them at full speed and whoosh past at 2 inches distance. If there's no-one even on the sidewalk, or if you go slow and wide around them - no harm, no foul imo. Looks like your 'hood in the middle of the day is going to fit right into the first category most of the time.

Welcome aboard! Riding bikes is so cool. You'll soon be riding all over the hood, then further afield, then before you know it you'll be wondering whether to spend $4000 on a new bike for your transcontinental trip!
whatsmyname is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 10:48 AM
  #22  
AverageCommuter
..
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Photosmith
My parents were always very anti-bicycle when I was growing up and my dad would quote stats on how a quarter of all traffic fatalities were due to car versus ped/bike collisions and whatever.
?!?!?!


Yeah I think your dad may want to recheck his stats. There are approximately 40,000 deaths involving motorized vehicles each year and a mere 900 involving bicycles. Even if every single one of the bicycle deaths also involved a car, that would only be 2.25%. I think the statistic you father may have been thinking of is that around 25% of all bicycle fatalities occur on road. The other 75% occur off road.


I agree with noisebeam, eventually those high volume arterials won't look so bad, but it's a good idea to work up to that sort of thing. It takes time to build confidence and handling skills.
AverageCommuter is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 11:24 AM
  #23  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,267
Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by AverageCommuter
?!?!?!


Yeah I think your dad may want to recheck his stats. There are approximately 40,000 deaths involving motorized vehicles each year and a mere 900 involving bicycles. Even if every single one of the bicycle deaths also involved a car, that would only be 2.25%.
The original quote didn't just talk about bike-car collisions, but about bike-car and ped-car collisions combined.

Though frankly that in itself is a pretty useless statistics, even if it's true. Ok, so 25% of all motor accident deaths involve peds/cyclists. That means that 75% involve motorists only. So what? Does that mean that driving is three times more dangerous than walking? Without the figures involving average exposure hours for each activity these stats are perfectly meaningless. Though, I suppose, if you repeat them many times to a little kid with a grave expression on your face, it might have an effect, for little kids are not particularly good at statistics, but are good at picking up non-verbal signals from their parents.
chephy is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 05:25 PM
  #24  
terceiro
squeaky clean
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: O-H-I-O
Posts: 47

Bikes: 1985 Specialized Allez SE, Diamondback Response Sport

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm sure I would have used the sidewalk in your circumstance, but I do want to point out that a quarter-mile, while a healthy distance for a ped is just a sneeze for a cyclist. If you're *really* concerned, or see a grouchy traffic enforcement officer staring your down, the extra half-mile ride is really a minor concession.

Except you're in Phoenix. Sorry about that.
terceiro is offline  
Old 09-01-07, 06:39 PM
  #25  
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 2,968
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DON"T go through the vacant lot. goatheads will get you! they are nasty. and they will deflate a tire quicker than you can say "shortcut". Your route is fine.
__________________
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
rando is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.