Leebo

Where exactly is this? I ride the Charles river bike paths in near my work in Brighton.

genec

I tend to agree with all of this... and with the exception of highway roundabouts, I find that traffic speed in roundabouts tends to favor the well prepared cyclist... usually about 15MPH or so, which isn't bad and beats having to come to a stop.

mrchaotica

So, if I understand correctly, you were trying to make a left turn from the left edge of the straight-only lane (as opposed to making it from the center of the left-turn lane)? If so, why would you do such a thing?! You should have been (legitimately) blocking the people turning left instead of the ones trying to go straight.

Leebo

Inside lane? Not for me, a least not in MA. Cars on the outside exit to the right. My rotaries in question are on each side of a bridge over a river. First one is just a right turn. Second one is 180 degrees from where I enter. I stay on the outside for that one.

JohnHuth

The intersection is Galen, Watertown, and Nonantum. California Street also enters about 30 meters to the west of this intersection.

It is a *very* difficult intersection and if anyone has any advice on how to better handle it, I'm open for suggestions. The first problem is the traffic is horrendous - very long lines of cars. I drive and bike, so I've seen that intersection from both perspectives. There was a horrendous crash only a week ago between two cars.

This is going eastward, coming down Watertown Street, on lanes on the south side - eastbound, then trying to get onto the bike path, which is on the north side of Nonantum Street, which you can consider as effectively the extension of Watertown Street eastbound on the other side of Galen. Somehow a person has to get across oncoming traffic by some means - e.g. a left. To set-up the typical commute situation - there are large back-ups in the left hand turn lane, going back 1/4 of a mile or more, while the straight lane is mostly smooth coming in.

What *I* do nearly all the time is to bike off the main commute hours, so there's not so much traffic. But, even then, it's fairly safe to execute something that is not fully law abiding, by getting to the left to the west of where California enters Watertown, then crossing over the opposing traffic lane as fast as possible and then use the sidewalk for about 50 feet to cross over to the Charles River Bike path. I do this about 100-200 feet away from the intersection, before California enters Watertown Street. Once on the bike path, a cyclist can use the lights and pedestrian cross-walk sign to cross over Galen onto the bike path, which is relatively safe from that point on eastward.

What I *see* other bicyclists do most of the time, going east is to take the fast, light straight lane past the long stack of cars in the left hand turn lane, then scrunch between the left and right turn lanes and then get out to allow the straight only lane to go, but has to wait for the left turn lane light to illuminate. The reason for this is to avoid getting into a 1/4 mile + back-up. Nominally you're correct that one should get into the left hand lane and hold it, but that means about five-ten minutes of a crawl, where other traffic is entering from the left and it gets very confused and also seems quite exposed. I have never seen anyone do this (i.e. just crawl forward on the left, taking up a 'car space').

If I were to read their minds (and mine) - it seems like the safer option, as the bicyclist is making a soft left onto the bike path, while the motorists are making a harder left onto Galen from Watertown Street. I don't know if a person could intrude into the line of cars on the left. I suppose if you were being 100% law abiding, a bicyclist would get into the 1/4 mile back-up in the left and just inch forward, but that also seems exposed.

Now one 100% law abiding thing to do is to get to the right hand lane, move up as far as is practical, then get onto the sidewalk, walk the bike to the light, and wait until the pedestrian light turns on and then walk the bike across. I have never seen anyone do this on a bike either. I'm a little dubious about this one as well, because you need to take the time to dismount, and get the bike over the curb and walk along the sidewalk, which isn't as easy as it might seem.

Most often, I have seen the maneuver I just described of getting between the lanes. That looks unsafe to me (again proven by my experience this morning), which is why I have this other maneuver going.


Crossing over to California farther to the west doesn't seem particularly safe, either, as there's no obvious crossing and cars whiz by very fast.

As a counter-example, I normally make lefts by doing exactly what we're supposed to do - that is to say, get into the left-hand turn lane and hold it - staying back in traffic. Coming into Cambridge, I do this multiple times without problems. This particular intersection of Galen/Watertown/Nonantum (and California) is a massive head-scratcher.

I am definitely open to suggestions from anyone who has negotiated this monster. Having asked this question here, it strikes me that the Watertown Police might have their own suggestions, as they surely know how difficult that intersection is.

mrchaotica

First of all, I've found that I actually kind of prefer very heavy traffic -- when it's congested enough, I can keep up with (or even go faster than) the cars and it seems less dangerous. In contrast, when traffic is moderate and lots of cars are flying past close to the speed limit is when I feel least safe.

Anyway, looking at that intersection in Google Maps, it doesn't look that bad. It's certainly more friendly for cycling than a lot of the intersections here in Atlanta, at least! Granted, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about riding along Galen Street for any significant distance, but using it to cross the river as part of an overall east-west route along the greenway (or Watertown St -> Galen St -> N Beacon St) seems totally reasonable.

If I were trying to make a left turn from eastbound Watertown St to northbound Galen St. I would do one of the following:

1. Turn left onto the greenway at California St (or maybe even cut through to it via 5th Avenue).
2. Wait in the left turn lane, like a car.
3. If I were in a hurry, filter to the front of the queue, but (crucially) pull completely in front of the first (stopped) left-turning car and get all the way out of the through lane.
4. Ride to the left of the left-turning cars, wait in the painted median (just before the concrete median island starts), then cut across to the bike path when oncoming traffic is clear -- this option would only be considered if the westbound traffic is relatively light.

(Note: the latter two options are not legally correct; therefore, I do not recommend them.)

In any case, what I would not do is allow cars to pass me: I'd either be on the greenway, taking the lane, or filtering past stopped cars.

JohnHuth

It's not quite as easy as that - but here are the issues:

Options
1.) No left turn onto California is allowed at that intersection. California ends at that intersection and only westbound traffic coming along Watertown can enter, so that would be an illegal left. The second problem with that is that a person would have to enter from the right into the left or basically do the 'sit in traffic' in the left lane, but since it's an illegal left, that wouldn't work in any case. The third problem is that the traffic at that Watertown/California intersection is so jammed that there are people who often block oncoming traffic coming out of California. The problem with 5th Ave is that you have to cross cars on California that are zooming both ways and there's no safe crosswalk there. I've tried that twice, nearly got into accidents both times.

2.) Yup, can do, but it's very exposed, in particular to the fracas when California enters. The traffic backs up well to the west of California. So, technically, yes, but no one has ever done this on a bicycle that I've seen over the years.

3.) I think that's what people try to do, but you have be careful about people wanting to jump the light, which Bostonians often do - that is to say, take an illegal left as soon as the light turns green in front of oncoming traffic.

4.) Is pretty much what I have to do. The trick to this is the light at California and Watertown street. When that light stops westbound traffic, there's basically zero traffic - hardly anyone turns right at California. This morning, I didn't do it because a police car had made a stop right where I cross over.

Part of the problem is that there are so many moving violations by cars in that area that one almost has to count on them and adapt.

I realize it may not look difficult on a map, but believe me, it is. There's another intersection along the bike path on the Charles that other considered so unsafe that some people were out, collecting signatures from cyclists.

mrchaotica

Pay attention to the signal so that you can anticipate when the light is going to turn green. If you don't think you'll make it all the way to the front of the line well before that happens, then stop filtering and pull in between cars in the turn lane. It's better to be several cars back than to cut in front of somebody right as they're about to accelerate.

JohnHuth

I'll take a look next time I cross there to see how others are doing it.

Anyone other than me know this intersection? If so, what do you do?

If I have a chance to see a policeman there, I may stop and ask for advice.

prathmann

My view is the opposite. Except for the few places where there has been a repeated issue with cars using the path I'd prefer to get rid of the bollards entirely, or at least replaced by flexible plastic that bends out of the way when struck by a cyclist. I've seen plenty of cyclists fall as a result of hitting bollards that weren't seen in time because of other cyclists or pedestrians and strongly suspect that this risk is far greater than would be created by an occasional car being driven onto the path illegally. Fortunately the injuries I've seen have been minor, but this article shows that they can also be serious or even fatal:
Are bike path bollards an unnecessary hazard? » Biking Bis

Camilo

I wrote:
I don't understand your comment or if you were disagreeing with me. Using the US as an example, I was recommending riding in the center of the lane in a roundabout not on the right side of the lane, and taking that center position well before the roundabout.

If you're talking about double lane roundabouts, I would take the center of the right lane and watch very carefully for drivers in the left lane who decide to exit to the right, in case they either don't see me or don't care.

mulveyr 

Usually people around here are pretty good about passing, but there's still the occasional close call. A couple of weeks ago I had an incredibly close pass by a car, and a snarky yelled comment, that ended up at a stop light a few hundred feet up the road.

It was a teenager, and the windows were down. I rolled up, pointed to my bike cam, and said "I just recorded you passing me closer than three feet. Enjoy the five points* you're getting on your license for that after I report it."

The look of sheer terror on his face when he contemplated his insurance skyrocketing and possibly losing his license was pure gold schadenfreude. I'm definitely going to do that again.

*Note: We don't actually have such a law yet.

mr_bill

Small bridge on the Mystic?

Other intersection*S*! Plural. N. Beacon St, Arsenal St, and Cambridge Street all deserve high derision.

Anyhow, reconsider 5th to California. Dismount at the crosswalk at 5th and California if need be and pedestrian across the crosswalk, *OR* ride along California to the light, turn into the pork chop with the left turn signal and wait for the traffic to clear the last few feet.

(Here's hoping that S.1809 becomes law this year, so people on bicycles are taken out of our current legal limbo while we ride in a marked crosswalk.)

-mr. bill

OriginalFerbie

This. That's exactly how I would be handling that after doing a "virtual" ride through street view just now lol. That negates any of the issues at that BUSY looking intersection once you hit Galen, because you're already on the path.

Actually, I would be considering connecting with that path even sooner west on California, if only because I'm jealous of paths lol.

italktocats

oh a bmw

Leebo

I'm familiar with it but don't drive or bike that far down. Bigger picture, exactly where are you coming from and final destination? Can you use the cross walk/ walk bike across them? I do that sometimes. Ped walk signals? Avoid that whole area all together? The bike paths run up all the way to Watertown. Checked in with Mass Bike? The greenway crosses the river on it's own bridge upstream from Galen st, over by 5th ave, FYI.

Jim from Boston

As a denizen of Kenmore Square, I know that intersection well, just before Watertown Square, “Gateway to the West" (of Metro Boston). I find it hard to be analytic about descriptions of any complex intersection; rather I go through them situationally. That is, I’ll use any technique, with caution, to pass through an intersection safely and expeditiously as the situation warrants.

More often, I bypass your particular intersection, and go through Watertown Square itself via Route 16, Arsenal St, Charles River Rd, or less likely Galen St, and I find that intersection even more complex. However, I usually pass through Watertown Square early in the morning with little traffic, so my route is carte blanche.

I previously posted to this Commuting thread, ”Seasoned road warriors -- help me navigate this intersection on my commute home”:

PS:I do have a couple “ethical” considerations when I pass through an intersection on my terms. I try not to inconvenience cars or pedestrians (”Do unto the pedestrians, as you would have the cagers do unto you.”) and I would completely follow traffic laws in the presence of a police officer. Not for fear of citation, since Boston police are usually not too finicky, but out of respect for them, not to flagrantly flaunt the law.

It’s a peculiarity here in Massachusetts that every road work site have a police detail on duty, so we cyclists frequently encounter them. I also give them a wave, and occasionally they give me extra consideration to pass by the site. Recently one directed me onto the side walk to get around the obstruction.

bakes1

This.
I know many regular A&S posters may not believe this but you can make a point without trying to be overly dramatic.

JohnHuth

Yes, and yes. I find that understanding the timing of traffic lights helps - also noting common habits of moving violations by motorists, to maximize safety. I tried to find ways of by-passing that intersection, but the by-passes themselves have their element of peril. In my last two commutes, I saw three other approaches to that intersection that others had tried. One of the bigger problems is that cars will cross into the intersection even when it's jammed. Yes, I know that's illegal (blocking an intersection), and it creates very heated moments among the motorists.

Each intersection seems to have its own peculiarities that must be understood.

For police at construction duty - same thing, I'll smile, say "hi", ask what's going on.

Generally in your ethics, I agree - try not to encumber or scare pedestrians, or block motorists. It just seemed that on that particular day, I was forced into a position that I generally don't do, and although I was trying my best not to block anyone, it seems I did, but unintentionally. Also, note that there are frequently quite large trucks making lefts into Watertown - yesterday, there was a large concrete mixer idling. Sitting next to one of those puppies with the rotating drum on a bike is quite an experience.

Leisesturm

Why on earth do you think a cop would have any useful insights on the best way for a cyclist to get through a particular intersection??? Surely the matter is not so complicated as you are making it. Why not stop in at your favorite bike shop and ask if anyone there rides that particular stretch or road and ask them what they do.

Miele Man

the rail-trails here have bollards and/or a swing gate at most crossings. The distance between the outside bollard and the bllard the swin *** locks to is narrow enough that you have to be very careful to line up exactly if you're pulling a side by side child trailer. There's only a couple of inches to spare and that's if you don't have the outside wheel guard on thetrailer.

The swing gate is need so that both trail maintenance vehicles or emergency vehicles can have access to the trail too.

Here in town there is a MUP that they added a bollard and swing gate to at each end of a boardwalk. I discoverd these one night when i went to enter the boardwalk section and was riding at sped. The bollard was hidden by trailside brush and the swing gate was a neutral flat grey that did not show up in my bicycle light. I hit the bollard at an angle and went down hard. I think that bollards and swing gates should not be installed unless reflective strips are already on them and that bollards should have thin wand sticking up a few feet and on that wand should be a caution sign of some sort.

Cheers

Cheers

molten

La Jolla, Ca. has a strip of 'roundabouts.
But in such an area like San Diego, one has to has the correct status of a bike/clothing --- that match the neighborhood's approval. For the safest judgment to be received. So that the car(s) not beat/race against the bike, into the roundabout.

molten

numbernine be LUCKY, that the car-driver had stopped for him/nunbernine. In the San Diego area --- such drivers, if they stop, they stop only to make trouble/argue. Not to negotiate/chat. Not to get along with a cyclist. If a car-driver does stop, the car-driver does stop, because the car-driver intended such a set-up; that the cyclist want a stop made. As the car-driver WANT TO SEE THE BIKE. JEALOUS OF THE BIKE.

molten

Of anyone choosing to be a cyclist in the COUNTY of San Diego: the extreme majority of "cyclist"s here -- in reality are OFF-DUTY car drivers. Concealing what attitude may be shared later to you, at a future time/experience. Even more a concern --- with the (no exagg) ADDICTION of cell-phones used during driving. I even seen cyclists in San Diego County doing it. That only further validates my 1st theory/sentence as a fact of life.

Moe Zhoost

I never, ever give a car any room going through these sorts of things. If they can pass me before I get there, fine. I usually can travel through these without reducing speed so the fact that I take the lane is irrelevant to drivers who have to slow down anyway.