Rear Light - Flashing or Steady?
#76
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Re: fire trucks .... trucks Not painted red were involved in a lot fewer collisions. Maybe that doesn't matter to some folks but ...
By the way three separate studies were mentioned, for those who think all the articles were referencing the same study .... and all found that red and orange can disappear in low-light conditions, and that fluorescent green vehicles were in the fewest accidents (per capita.)
This was not a case pf people watching video and pushing buttons,. This was an actual count of accidents involving emergency vehicles, and it was found the adjusted for proportion, red vehicles got hit a lot more. Three studies addressed the issue of emergency vehicle color starting int he late-'60s /early '70s and the latest in the past several years ... all had the same conclusion. Red and orange are least visible---invisible---in low-light conditions. People still paint fire engines red due to tradition .... because people are stupid.
Sorry some people think science matters ... but a lot of people don't. Oh, well. Darwin still has a job, passing out those awards.
By the way three separate studies were mentioned, for those who think all the articles were referencing the same study .... and all found that red and orange can disappear in low-light conditions, and that fluorescent green vehicles were in the fewest accidents (per capita.)
This was not a case pf people watching video and pushing buttons,. This was an actual count of accidents involving emergency vehicles, and it was found the adjusted for proportion, red vehicles got hit a lot more. Three studies addressed the issue of emergency vehicle color starting int he late-'60s /early '70s and the latest in the past several years ... all had the same conclusion. Red and orange are least visible---invisible---in low-light conditions. People still paint fire engines red due to tradition .... because people are stupid.
Sorry some people think science matters ... but a lot of people don't. Oh, well. Darwin still has a job, passing out those awards.
There were multiple (three) studies. Your four links reference the same set of multiple studies. That is, your four links are mostly repeating themselves.
Note that I'm not saying fire trucks shouldn't be painted hi-viz yellow.
Last edited by njkayaker; 01-09-24 at 10:57 AM.
#77
Senior Member
I’ve had drivers who assume I’m closing at a much slower rate than I am, and I’m pretty sure I had my front flasher going. One was about 20 mins before sunset, another was on a shallow, mostly shaded descent.
As for visibility, colors work best when there’s already light, be that daylight or headlight - and I personally notice flashers more out of my peripheral vision, be it while cycling or driving. I’ve definitely noticed commuters going home after dark, without lights, while wearing their black, grey or brown jackets - but it was the reflective strip on their jacket/bag/pedals that got my attention first. If I had any blinkies in my car I’d offer one to them…
Anytime the light suddenly drops, I like to make sure my rear blinky is on, and will often turn on the front one.
As for visibility, colors work best when there’s already light, be that daylight or headlight - and I personally notice flashers more out of my peripheral vision, be it while cycling or driving. I’ve definitely noticed commuters going home after dark, without lights, while wearing their black, grey or brown jackets - but it was the reflective strip on their jacket/bag/pedals that got my attention first. If I had any blinkies in my car I’d offer one to them…
Anytime the light suddenly drops, I like to make sure my rear blinky is on, and will often turn on the front one.
#78
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Interesting discussion. One thing I can say with confidence is that what works in isolation on an empty road gets lost in light clutter when there's traffic. This may be one reason the cops use blue and why a contrasting color might make sense for cyclists. I experienced this one evening at a busy intersection, when an oncoming driver made a turn on red while was I making a left and nearly nailed me. We had a brief discussion after I stopped screaming, which made it clear that he missed the pinpoint of my fancy, high-intensity LED headlight in the mass of oncoming traffic. I assume the same thing can happen with red tail lights.
Anyone who has navigated a boat into a busy, lit-up, port at night will also have experienced this. One can miss huge ships at short range and blinking navigational lights can be simply invisible, even when you know exactly where they should be.
Anyone who has navigated a boat into a busy, lit-up, port at night will also have experienced this. One can miss huge ships at short range and blinking navigational lights can be simply invisible, even when you know exactly where they should be.
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#79
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In our area, winters are long, days are short, and with this stupidity of changing the clock, we are always returning from work when it is pitch black. So uncivilized or not, if we wish to pay our bills (instead of using our welfare system where others foot our bills), I have to ride in dark. Choosing the path that isn’t busy with commuters using automobiles is the they to safety. In my case, I don’t mind adding extra 10-15 min to my bicycling time, as I avoid drivers singularly focused on making good time through running the “pink” lights (which often red as they enter the intersection).
#80
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#81
When driving today at dusk I came across a cyclist with a rapid flashing red tail light and reflective socks. It was a very effective combo. Unmistakable as a cyclist from long range. I didn’t even notice what colour his jacket was!
Interestingly I also saw another cyclist with a very sliow flashing tail light and that was much less effective. The flash on/off period was about a second which made it look partially invisible.
Finally I saw a third cyclist with no rear light and dark clothing going in the opposite direction. Hope he made it home!
Interestingly I also saw another cyclist with a very sliow flashing tail light and that was much less effective. The flash on/off period was about a second which made it look partially invisible.
Finally I saw a third cyclist with no rear light and dark clothing going in the opposite direction. Hope he made it home!
#82
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I don't ride much in the dark. When I do it's early morning. I still use a blinky strapped to my left ankle as I did in the 70's. Drivers just can't figure out what that rotating, blinking safety light is and they slow down almost immediately, far before they can make out my figure. Of course, I've got another on my seatpost that I keep on flash mode and a small blinking headlight. Talking rural roads here, but still.
#83
When driving today at dusk I came across a cyclist with a rapid flashing red tail light and reflective socks. It was a very effective combo. Unmistakable as a cyclist from long range. I didn’t even notice what colour his jacket was!
Interestingly I also saw another cyclist with a very sliow flashing tail light and that was much less effective. The flash on/off period was about a second which made it look partially invisible.
Finally I saw a third cyclist with no rear light and dark clothing going in the opposite direction. Hope he made it home!
Interestingly I also saw another cyclist with a very sliow flashing tail light and that was much less effective. The flash on/off period was about a second which made it look partially invisible.
Finally I saw a third cyclist with no rear light and dark clothing going in the opposite direction. Hope he made it home!
I agree about epilepsy inducing bliky lights being the most effective.
#85
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#88
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The lights that really get my attention are the headlights on females in high beam mode. Steady is nice, but even better if they're flashing me!
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#91
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But I'm not sure ^^^that phenomenon has anything to do with lights, blinking or steady. Automobile drivers seem to consistently underestimate how fast cyclists are moving. Especially when the cyclist is coming towards them and they are trying to make a left turn in front of that oncoming traffic.
:angryface:
:angryface:
If a faster blinking light, or twin blinkies out of sync, or a friggin torch will help drivers understand that we're often not much slower than them (read: fairly straight 2% descent on a 35mph road), then I'm all for it. In winter at least, I've been running with twin blinkies in front to minimize the risk of one running out of power - in my last ride, I turned both on in hopes that gets more drivers' attention...
#92
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I have had similar encounters .... downhill at a good clip with drivers watching me come, then deciding to pull out just as I get there .... I think drivers first see the cyclist as a possible threat, like a car or truck, then realize it is just a bike, not a threat ... then look at the rest of traffic, and if they see no threats, pull out .... ignoring the fact that they, themselves, are threats.
Who knows? Reasoning skills can be found lacking even in calm, stable environments ... in the rapidly changing scenario on a roadway, expecting people to think sensibly is a poor gamble.
Who knows? Reasoning skills can be found lacking even in calm, stable environments ... in the rapidly changing scenario on a roadway, expecting people to think sensibly is a poor gamble.
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#93
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The combination which caught my eye while driving at night was a cyclist, or bike rider, with two reflective bands on his ankles separately going up and down with a very bright blinking light on their seat post. From a half mile back, could tell if wearing hi-vis.
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
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#94
I have had similar encounters .... downhill at a good clip with drivers watching me come, then deciding to pull out just as I get there .... I think drivers first see the cyclist as a possible threat, like a car or truck, then realize it is just a bike, not a threat ... then look at the rest of traffic, and if they see no threats, pull out .... ignoring the fact that they, themselves, are threats.
Who knows? Reasoning skills can be found lacking even in calm, stable environments ... in the rapidly changing scenario on a roadway, expecting people to think sensibly is a poor gamble.
Who knows? Reasoning skills can be found lacking even in calm, stable environments ... in the rapidly changing scenario on a roadway, expecting people to think sensibly is a poor gamble.
[* I have heard this argument from more than one bicyclist in person - cars have brakes, all they need to do is to use them to slow their car down a little so I can clear in my momentum, which takes my strength to pedal my bike - why can’t they appreciate it. Or something to that effect- ]
#95
The combination which caught my eye while driving at night was a cyclist, or bike rider, with two reflective bands on his ankles separately going up and down with a very bright blinking light on their seat post. From a half mile back, could tell if wearing hi-vis.
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
#96
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That will be the only way to get their attention! Then when they swipe left, the car's brakes are automatically applied
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#98
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Agreed; may be, just may be, the bicyclists also need to start looking at these situations a little differently. Rather than griping about the irresponsible, illogical and idiotic drivers among the like-minded people, assume that drivers really are what bicyclists think of them - the next step then becomes a matter of self-preservation. Who has more to lose; is not losing your momentum* worth risking your limbs and even life?
[* I have heard this argument from more than one bicyclist in person - cars have brakes, all they need to do is to use them to slow their car down a little so I can clear in my momentum, which takes my strength to pedal my bike - why can’t they appreciate it. Or something to that effect- ]
[* I have heard this argument from more than one bicyclist in person - cars have brakes, all they need to do is to use them to slow their car down a little so I can clear in my momentum, which takes my strength to pedal my bike - why can’t they appreciate it. Or something to that effect- ]
I have been cycling on the road, in traffic, for more than 50 years.
Fairly obviously I am not dead.
Pretty obviously I have figured out How to ride on the road in traffic without dying.
Further conclusions I leave to you.
#99
Please provide a credible evidence that you are not a ghost who has figured out how to type.
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