CanadaWriter

Hi guys,

I've got a good price on a Cannondale Quick 4 that I'm considering for touring. I'm trying to understand how to evaluate the wheels for durability. They read as Cannondale C4, double wall, 32-hole. How can I research whether or not these are suitable? I do like bothering everyone here for opinions, but I'd like more tools or knowledge so I can make these evaluations on my own.

I'd like to point out my plan is to buy this bike, do the tour of 1600km, then fly back with the bike possibly to never do a tour again. I might tour again, or just keep it as a city bike.

Thanks!

3speed

Unfortunately there isn’t some website or other tool(that I know of anyway) that will tell you things like whether a component is suitable for something. It just comes down to lots of time spent reading. ...Lots of time. As for those wheels, as long as you’re not a big person or plan on carrying lots of gear, I bet they’ll be fine. They aren’t one of the typical first recommendations like a Velocity Dyad or Mavic 719, but lots of other wheels are just fine. Cannondale makes nice stuff, so a 32 hole wheelset from them is gonna be of good quality.

Happy Feet

I'm sure people could argue about spokes and rims for eons but...

Good enough. Worrying about wheelsets only really comes into play when you are doing either:

• A really long tour in isolated conditions
• Rugged off road stuff
• Very heavy loaded

Most double walled 32H modern rims should survive a one off, 1600km trip on pavement. Some people get the wheel retrued to ensure the spoke tension is correct.

alan s 

Wheels are components that tend to cost a lot for higher quality, and are often not the best quality on factory bikes. It’s where the manufacturer tries to cut costs and save money. Consumers look at the specs, and see Ultegra or whatever, and assume the entire bike is comparable. Wheels are usually completely overlooked by unwitting consumers. The rim, hub, spokes, tires and rotors (if applicable) are probably house brand or second rate quality. A really nice set of handbuilt wheels can run you $500 to $800. Are they good enough? Probably for your purposes, but they may not hold up very long. Impossible to know for sure. You can safely assume they will need to be replaced at some point, but that depends on how much abuse you subject them to.

Leebo

Hub brand? Back wheel takes the most abuse. Get the bike. Go to a bike mech and have them look it over. Could get a new rear wheel for $ 300? or so.

pdlamb

The things I worry about most with wheels are adequate tension and stress-relief. On the tension front, if you're a musician, pluck a couple spokes. They should all give a "twang" of about the same pitch. If they go "thud" the wheel's badly undertensioned. You can do the Jobst Brandt stress relief at home: put on some leather gloves, grab a pair of parallel spokes, and squeeze as hard as you can. Go around the wheel and make sure every pair of spokes gets a big squeeze. You're done. (Unless you threw the wheel out of true!)

fietsbob

Traveling light?, they may be fine, if they fail on the road, Plan to have sufficient money on hand to buy a new wheel..

have a lesson on replacing a spoke..

Tourist in MSN

I assume a used bike had these wheels that you bought.

If the front and rear rims and spokes do not match, that might be a sign that something was replaced. If so, is there an obvious reason why?

I have never had a rim or wheel failure, it has been a few decades since I had a spoke break. But, I know a couple people that have had rims fail. Look closely (maybe with magnifying glass) on the spoke holes for cracks on the drive side spokes on the rear wheel.

Have any spokes been replaced? While that may be a hard thing to assess, if any of the spokes look different (pattern on spoke head if any, gauge not the same on all, etc.) that could be a sign that some problems already occurred. Again, I would focus on the rear.

Front and rear, are the nipples an alloy that can corrode? If they are shiny and have a nickel sort of look, they likely are fine.

If it is a rim brake bike, does the brake surface feel like it has much if any wear? Rims can wear down to the point where they blow from air pressure.

Are the spokes all reasonably close to the same pitch as you turn the wheel past a thumbnail? Is it a high enough pitch that it sounds like you would expect to sound on a good wheel?

Is the rim tape on well?

Hubs, have they been greased since they left the factory? Free hub, does it have any odd sounds? Assuming loose ball bearings in the hubs, do they look good and shiny?

A wheel with a LOT of miles on it, the spokes where they touch each other can wear slight grooves into each other, this is not a problem but it can be a sign of a very high mileage wheel. I have never seen a spoke fail from that (now that I said it, someone will say the opposite), but I mention it as a sign of high usage.

If a tire has a flat spot on it, that can be a sign that teh rim at one spot is wider and causes the rear wheel to skid at the same spot on the tire.

Are the wheels well trued? If not, have them trued. Some rims are easier to true, so this is not the best way to assess a rim but if it is not true, is there an obvious reason why?

If there is no cassette on the rear, look at the spokes closely to see if a chain might have been dropped between the spokes and cassette. Or if anything damaged the spoke heads (tiny little bolt unscrewing from the cassette). On some of my bikes I run a spoke protector although some people think that is a sign of uncoolness, but I would rather have my spokes stay in good shape even if it means I ride with a dork disc.

I think usually if a wheel fails, it is a really big pot hole or something like that. Thus, a bad wheel could hold up great while a good wheel could suffer a big problem. When I was a kid, I bent a rim by hitting a curb the wrong way, but I was young and careless back then.

Good luck with the bike. I pretty much agree with what Alan S said too, I chose to focus more on how to assess them.

1600 km is long enough that you might want to put a new cassette and new chain on at the start. If your old parts are still in good shape, keep them to use later but you would likely rather wear parts out when you are home than wear them out half way through a trip.

Happy Feet

Instead of guessing, Cannondale C4 wheelset: https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bi...3-487b7a2eedf2

LeeG

1. How much do you weigh and how big of load?
2. If you are light and the load is light they would be fine as long as a mechanic/wheel builder checks them out.
3. If your load is moderate I would inclined to replace the rear wheel with something more robust as the specs say they are 32 hole 15g spokes. A well built 32 spoke wheel w 15g spokes can survive a moderate load but I wouldn’t take it for granted the factory did the best job possible. It’s expected a new bike would be ridden a bit then the shop would check it out to make sure everything is still ok.
I’d rather see 14g for a rear wheel with any load on a touring bike. When I was light all my wheels were straight 15g with 36 spokes but that was when rims weren’t as rigid as now.
4. If you or your load is moderate to heavy I would definitely replace the rear wheel with 36 14g straight or butted and 36 spokes.
5. I wouldnt bother changing the front wheel unless it’s in bad shape or you and the front load are heavy.

djb

as you can see from the other responses, unfortunately there just isnt a black and white answer for you. I recall that you weigh about 40lbs more than me, and that you plan on putting everything on the rear rack, so while I have toured on a bike with 32 spoke , double walled rims, and it worked ok, your weight, your load weight, the actual rims on this bike, how you ride over rough stuff, the tire pressures you run ---these are all factors.

you are in eastern europe I recall also, so ask around for a 36 spoke rear wheel--but then again, you have no experience with this stuff, so someone could sell you a wheel not really diff than the stock wheel on this bike that you havent bought yet.

easiest way to go is to buy the bike and do some test rides, and see how it holds up, and yes, again, get the wheels checked over by a good wheel guy after a while of riding. It is pretty sure that the spokes will need retightening.

If you plan to buy this or any bike and leave on the trip right away, welll, then you are just asking for trouble spokes wise.

one other anecdote to make you worry even more, on my 32 spoke wheeled bike, I had the wheels gone over before a trip. the trip went fine, but a few months later, I saw that all the driveside spokes had been overtightened by the shop, and had started to split the rim at the spoke holes. The mechanic had overdone it, simple as that, and given that I am so light and wasnt overly loaded, this showed that he didnt put the right tension, but a bit too much for that rim and spoke combo.......

let us know what you end up doing bike wise, and how it goes, if you want that is.

3speed

Ah. This was not mentioned. If this is accurate, I take back my guess that the rear wheel would be OK. If the plan is to just pile a ton of weight on the rear wheel and hope for the best, I’d recommend getting a Beefy rear wheel. Most of all, I’d recommend using front panniers and balancing out the load rather than trying to break a rear wheel. Keep in mind that when you hit that pothole, you’ll probably unweight yourself from the seat, making the hit gentler on the rear wheel. The pannier load will not unweight. The read wheel will take that hit, and hard. If you spread the weight between front and rear, it won’t be such a big hit.

CanadaWriter

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the responses. My takeaway is that while there's no one way to measure the quality, they might be fine as long as I don't overload the bike, or if I spread the weight out. Just to clear up some points:

1. This is a new bike.
2. I weigh 80kg and plan on putting 10-15kg worth of stuff on the rear rack and panniers. (I'm trying to get that down as low as possible and lose weight!) That being said, I am open to moving gear elsewhere if that makes a significant difference.
3. I've got 10 weeks until the tour begins.
4. I am a guitar player so I'll give the spokes a pull and listen for the twang.

Thanks guys!

LeeG

1. ride the heck out of the bike this month with a load then have the shop recheck everything. Failures usually come from a problem not being addressed when it first shows up. Waiting to get everything checked out right before the trip doesn’t give you enough time to see how the fix or adjustment worked.

2. If the rear wheel really has 32 15 gauge spokes that is not adequate for a 15kg load where a healthy margin of durability is desirable when far from home or a bike shop. I would get a more robust rear wheel now, keep the front one and use the time before the trip to break things in, you and bike. If the rear spokes are 14 g it could be adequate but only if the shop checks the wheel now and in a month. Either way I’d try to move half that load forward onto frame or front rack just to improve handling and the simple fact rear wheels last about 1/3 as long as front wheels.

3. plenty of time to work out the kinks

4. talk to mechanic about spoke tension, good enough doesn’t have to be perfect.

Looks like the front fork isnt set up for a rack, no prob. See if there’s room for a frame bag like this that doesn’t interfere with water bottles.

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ial-Frame-Pack

Also consider a bottle holder under the downtube but secure it with a toestrap so there is absolutely no chance it can fly out.

With that sloped top tube you have underutilized space at the seat tube/ top tube juncture.

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...ckpit/Jerrycan

Your flat bars are ideal for under bar wraps

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...ebar/Sweetroll

You can attach bags without buying specialized devices but you have to be absolutely sure nothing can bounce out or jam into a wheel. Speaking from experience having a wheel lock up at 25 mph because of a loose item is no fun.

it’s a good bike but not really designed for heavy rear loads, the more you reduce your load and distribute it off the rear wheel the handling will be more enjoyable with less stress on the rear wheel. Also with some of that gear forward you can use medium/small panniers instead of large ones and filling them up.

Like I said when I was young and light I toured ultra light and my wheels were comparable to yours in strength and they lasted. The times they got damaged and needing a rim replaced was spirited unloaded fast riding where pot holes and crashes damaged them. Once you put a pile of dead weight on a rear wheel and get lazy about checking pressure damage is a lot more likely.

Thirty five years ago I had a bike shop on the north coast of California and the most common repair for people touring through was broken rear spoke on the drive side followed by a trashed rim from pot hole or crash. After that a collection of problems related to poor maintenance. A common thing said by people with wheel problems was “I don’t get it, I’ve ridden these wheels a long time without problems”. Except riding a bike with just a rider is a whole different load than one with twenty pounds or more sitting dead on the rear wheel.

djb

excellent points, the one other thing I'm not sure if I mentioned, is the possibility of asking around for either a new or even used but in good shape 36 spoke rear wheel with a stronger rim. I just dont know if in that type of market where you are, if high quality stuff is around, as I imagine Joe Blow person using a bike doesnt have the expendable income for higher quality wheels.

veganbikes

I identify good wheels on if they are hand built by someone who knows what they are doing from at least decent quality parts but even some cheaper components built by a skilled hand are better than some of these machine built wheels.

Double wall and 32 spokes is a good start for a touring wheel though but I would ride it a lot on rough roads loaded down with your heavier loads and just see what happens around your area and bring it by the shop to check them with enough time to ride the bike and double check any work done and bring it back if need be with enough time there to do at least a week of final checks.

manapua_man

I've got a few thousand miles on a similar set of wheels on a bike I got couple years ago and my body weight alone is about the same as both you and the load you plan on carrying.

Just make sure to check the spoke tension and how true the wheels are, ride the crap out of em for a week or two and check em again. I've noticed some noises etc. starting to come from the rear hub, but I'm not concerned since the idea was to just run them into the ground before upgrading/migrating wheels from one of my other bicycles.

bikenh

When you can't trust the wheels that come with a lightweight touring bike...what can you trust. The wheels that came with my bike didn't even last me 4500 miles before they were pulling spokes through the rim. and had to be replaced. The next two wheels were no better, one only got 3400 miles before pulling spokes through the rim...3400 unloaded miles. It's pretty much a toss up.

cyccommute 

Frankly I was a bit shocked to see 15g (1.8mm) spokes on this bike. I'm not sure why they would do that since 15g have traditionally been more of a premium level component. That said, I agree that I doubt the factory wheels have been "well built". OEM wheels seldom are.

I wouldn't agree that rims are all that "rigid". They are still aluminum which is soft and flexible. Yes, they are a little more rigid than single wall rims but I would say they are just slightly more rigid. Most of the wheel rigidity is coming from the spokes anyway, and a thinner spoke is going to make for a less rigid wheel. That, in turn, puts more stress on the spoke elbow and makes it more prone to breaking.

Bottom line, the light gauge spokes and a heavy load might work or it might result in Orville Redenbacher time! My money is on the latter.

I would agree mostly. Front wheels seldom have problems but most front wheels don't use light gauge as this one does either.

My take on it, CanadaWriter, is that you might be fine with these wheels but, in my experience show, you are tempting fate. Ask yourself if you really want to spend time on tour sitting on the side of the road fixing spokes?

There is nothing worse on a tour than a broken spoke other than multiple broken spokes. Have the wheels checked but consider replace them with something beefier...at least the rear one.

LeeG

cyccomute, I admit I am totally not up to date. Rider skill and mechanical awareness go a long way to getting the most out of a wheels potential. My partner in the shop was bigger but he could ride the same wheels as me because he was a careful rider. Then I’d see 15yr olds totally destroy heavy 26” mtn bike wheels because they had other priorities. Cannondale is shaving ounces and dollars because the bike isn’t marketed as a touring bike but a general use light bike.

cyccommute 

I'll agree that rider skill has a lot to do with wheel longevity but loaded touring puts a lot more stress on the elbows of the spokes than unloaded riding even if the rider is careful. I'd also agree that Cannondale is shaving ounces...well micrograms. That's also a good argument for not trusting these wheels for touring. Wheels don't need to be all that expensive and getting something stronger would just offer some piece of mind.

GerryinHouston

Go over to the Clyde & Athena forum and see if there is relevant experience. Your 80 kg + 15 kg of stuff would barely qualify you as a Clyde!

Speaking in general terms, a 32 spoke wheel from a reputable manufacturer that is well tuned, should last for a long time for this load level.

Now, if you check the wheel tuning and it is off, nobody can tell you how much fatigue life is left on those spokes.

LeeG

fantom1 

Tried and true for factory wheels is one way. IE, do a lot of people ride them without issues?

The opinion of a good wheel builder is another.

Those are the only two ways I feel comfortable knowing if a wheelset is up to par for any given parameter, including touring. There is nothing more frustrating than a wheelset that is bad. It is endless misery.

Happy Feet

Context is everything.

We're talking about a brand new wheelset being used for a single 1600km trip carrying less weight loaded than I weigh by myself. I might have good wheel tech look at them pre trip but then would jump on that horse and ride.Heck, I ride 2nd hand rims from the 90s without concern. Theoretical first world problem to me.

people can worry themselves motionless if they try hard enough.