dmcdmc

it's the same with the rest of life...stereotypes are everywhere..cycling is no different.

all you can do is do what you think is right.

I think of it more as idiots vs normal people...whether they're walking, driving or biking

machinestatic

THIS is exactly how I feel. I started bike commuting to work a few months ago, and I can't tell you how many times I've started to write a post on this forum like "I'm so mad that a dozen people ran red lights past me today", and "they're giving cyclists a bad name in the minds of car drivers", etc. But I always stop myself from posting, because when it comes down to it, all I have control over -- read as: all I really care about --is my own riding habits. If I don't want to get killed at an intersection I stop at the red light, end of story. Even if those 12 people I saw read this forum and thought, "Hey, I think I'll stop at the light from now on" the motorists would still think we're all a bunch of anarchist road hogging daredevil jerks. Haha

I get a sense that sub-consciously I (and maybe other folks) wanted to write all of those posts to tell everyone here, "Hey, look at me, I'm a law-abiding cyclist, whoop dee doo", but at the end of the day, who cares. All that really affects is me, and my lower chances of getting turned into paste by the tires of a bus. Yay for me.

Oh, and to the OP, I sit and wait at a red light in a left-turn only lane every night on my way home from work, so regardless of my cynical soapbox comment, I know what you mean.

cyclocello

Most cyclists in my neighboring city either salmon up the roads, or ride on sidewalks, and both have unwritten erratic rules with negotiating traffic or "lanes" (i.e. cut across a 6 lane intersection to get to the other sidewalk). Motorists have no choice but to treat them as erratic pedestrians, as they are a constant disruption.

Ironically, hipsters are generally the most consistent and traffic-law following cyclists in this area! So are recreational roadies, but they generally are off on country roads, and would rather drive their cars in-town.

Hippiebrian

ew!

alan s 

Come on, it's not that bad . . . at least they shaved their legs.

Kojak

That ain't helping.

chipcom 

Kinda hard to say for certain what any driver's impression of cyclists is unless they have stated them. I would speculate that if a driver's impression is that cyclists wantonly break the law, one of the following is probably true:

1. the majority of cyclists they have observed have been breaking the law
2. the last cyclist they observed was breaking the law
3. they are merely parroting what they have read of heard

fastbartender

I ride like I'm invisible. That means sometimes I might break the law. If I can safely make it through an intersection, I will. I don't care about what anybody thinks about me as long as I live to ride another day. I would rather make aggressive decisions and live with the results, than get smashed by a car from behind while I am stopped waiting for a light. Having a "good name" isn't going to save your life. I am all for being courteous and sharing the road but I'm going to look out for myself first.

alan s 

Most negative opinions of bikes "at large" are based on the fact that bikes are slow, in the way, move unpredictably, fall over, are hard to see and are a general nuisance. Not much you can do to change that. Following traffic laws could help, but could make things worse, such as getting in the way more often.

rebel1916

These scofflaws disgust me.

robberry

What's wrong with having red tires or carrying a lock with you? I've recently learned that if you get hit by a car in NYC, the ambulance and police will force you to just leave your bike on the side of the road. I'd rather carry a lock so at least there's a chance my bike will still be there.

HappyStuffing

I'm with the OP. I can't stand cyclists who flagrantly disobey the law. It really does give other cyclists a bad name. Yes, someone said Darwin will catch up to these people, but that isn't soon enough as far as I'm concerned. They need to die NOW.

Screw those cyclists who bike as if they can do what they want and screw anyone reading this who advocates this mentality in the slightest.

Damn I'm pis.sed off.

neil

It's unfortunate, but it all has to do with our status as "others." When car driver #1 sees car driver #2 behaving badly, driver 1 puts driver 2 into the category of "bad drivers." Because driver 1 isn't a bad driver (in his/her mind), so good and bad drivers are clearly distinct groups.

When that same driver sees a cyclist behaving badly, the cyclist isn't part of some "bad cyclist" group, unless the driver also rides a bike in traffic sometimes. They're just another cyclist, and therefore cyclists don't follow the rules.

Is it a pain? Sure. But it's how peoples minds work, and we're not going to change that. What we can do is complain about bad cyclists and - given the opportunity - try to educate them to be better ambassadors of cycling.

Rob_E

I would say that the last cyclist they noticed or remember was breaking the law. When you easily overtake a cyclist, you think nothing of it. When you slam on your brakes because someone ran the light in front of you, it scares the **** out of you, and you remember it. Cars, on the other hand, are everywhere. You pay particular attention to them when they are driving badly, but it can hardly escape your notice that you're sharing the road with them almost constantly. I seem to remember studies showing that cars are no more or less law-abiding then bikes, that their rate of traffic infractions are about the same. But cyclists still get the bad rap, which means something other than a simple trend towards lawlessness is at work.

For this reason, rants about "giving cyclists a bad name" strike me as counter productive. There's already no evidence to suggest that cyclists are less law-abiding, so drivers making those arguments are either pre-disposed against cyclists or pre-disposed to remember law-breaking cyclists. In either case, nothing short full compliance from all cyclists paired with full knowledge of proper cycling from all motorists will solve the problem. Neither seems likely,but ranting against law-breaking cyclists one at a time does not seem like a path towards the general public's acceptance of our place on the road.

gecho

No matter how many cyclists obey the law, there will always be people upset with us. Currently the popular excuse is how cyclists are breaking the law. If we all obeyed the law, then they'd just change their excuse (too slow, endangering themselves, just don't belong on the road), its sort of like politics in that regard. Many people just feel awkward driving near cyclists. That feels bad, its therefore your fault for making them feel bad.

I think cycling also catches some of the pent up frustrations of society in general. Political correctness means that it is no longer socially acceptable to hate groupings of people based on a wide variety of categorizations (race, gender, etc). Though its perfectly acceptable to hate based on political affiliation, smoking, type of vehicle you drive, being a cyclist and your favorite sports teams.

cellery

Yes.

matimeo

Thanks to all who have responded. So I can clarify my original post, I wasn't trying to have a holier than thou attitude, although I hesitated in publishing the post because I knew it might come across that way. And maybe I was a little irked because I waited like a good boy and he cheated and got away with it (this time). Just like if I was taking a test and saw people cheating while the teacher was out of the room. You can bet your biscuits I'm going to tell on each and every one of them if their cheating is going to have a negative impact on my bottom line. I know the offender in question is unlikely to read this, or change their behavior even if they do- but I was hoping it would spark a debate about how we act out there on the road, and I think it has at least done that. Hopefully it makes each of us think a little more carefully about our riding habits. I'm not always a saint when I ride, so I don't mean to be hypocritical- but as my awareness grows I try to be more responsible.

GriddleCakes

I'm with gecho on this one; even if we all followed the letter of the law tomorrow, motorists wouldn't accept us on the roads. We're too slow, and our presence requires them to pay more attention. We are an extreme and (in the motorists' minds) inconvenient minority, and no amount of putting your foot down at every stop sign is going to change that.

This is what many a law-abiding cyclist thinks when seeing a scofflaw cyclist:
And this what many a motorist thinks when seeing even a law-abiding cyclist:
neil points out in post #38 that we are viewed as "others", and he's right. The problem is that we will always be others no matter how we ride, because even law abiding cyclists stick out in a modern traffic system like a sore thumb. Until a whole hell of a lot more people start using bikes as transportation, this is going to remain the case.

Seattle Forrest

Don't worry; it's not just this time. He got away with it every day for the past few years, and will continue to.

weshigh

I'm a little confused on what was sooo bad about this? I ride in pretty heavy traffic most of my commute. There are times in the left turn lane situation where I will filter between lanes up to the front of the left turn. I usually try to stay in the left turn lane while doing so, but sometimes I have to go into the straight lane for a moment. I'm going the same, or close to the same speed as the cars in the straight lane and don't pull out in front of anyone. Lane filtering is legal, as in, there is no law restricting in CA.

GriddleCakes

It's perceived as a form of cutting in line. Even if it isn't illegal, it's still considered rude. Whether or not you let that bother you is up to you.

chipcom 

In over 40 years I have never been smashed by a car from behind while waiting at a light. I have seen more than a few cyclists smashed from a car from the side running a light tho.

chipcom 

Look at the bright side...you ain't being pissed on.

chipcom 

Well one point that nobody has made....there outta be a law against red tires.

weshigh

I can see that, I've just never consider it to be rude as a driver or rider. I am usually almost all the way across the intersection of the left turn by the time the next car behind me even starts to turn. All the streets that I would do it on, I also make sure that I am out of the way of the cars behind once through the turn. I guess as usual, it all comes down to individual circumstance.