Strangeness - are my tire sidewalls defective?
#1
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
Strangeness - are my tire sidewalls defective?
I've been riding on these tires since mid-August and they've been progressively popping fibers on the sidewall between the sidewall and the tread. Strangely enough, the majority of the popping fibers are on the driveside both front and rear.
A couple pics:
Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.
DD
A couple pics:
Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 09-24-19 at 03:55 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2364 Post(s)
Liked 1,751 Times
in
1,193 Posts
You're sure it's not some rub on the drive side? Reverse the tire on the rim and ride it for a while. If the fraying continues, then it just happens that it's that side of the tire evidencing the defect (and yeah, I'd say it's a defect, if the tire is fairly new). If it starts fraying on the "new" drive side, then look more closely for a rub.
#4
Cat 6
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,482
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
118 Posts
I think you're leaning to the right.
(Could frame misalignment cause this type of issue? I really think it's a defect))
(Could frame misalignment cause this type of issue? I really think it's a defect))
__________________
72 Frejus (for sale), Holdsworth Record (for sale), special CNC & Gitane Interclub / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 French / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII f&f (for sale)/ 83 Trek 620 (for sale)/ 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook (for sale)/ 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 09 Giant TCX0 / 10 Vassago Fisticuff
72 Frejus (for sale), Holdsworth Record (for sale), special CNC & Gitane Interclub / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 French / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII f&f (for sale)/ 83 Trek 620 (for sale)/ 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook (for sale)/ 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 09 Giant TCX0 / 10 Vassago Fisticuff
#5
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
DD
#6
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
You're sure it's not some rub on the drive side? Reverse the tire on the rim and ride it for a while. If the fraying continues, then it just happens that it's that side of the tire evidencing the defect (and yeah, I'd say it's a defect, if the tire is fairly new). If it starts fraying on the "new" drive side, then look more closely for a rub.
DD
#7
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,802 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Likes For gugie:
#8
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
DD
Likes For Drillium Dude:
#9
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
IIRC, one of the issues with the extra-light version of the Grand Bois Hetre tire was that the tread was relatively thick up to the edges, yet the sidewall was very flexible. This difference in flexibility caused tire failures at the sidewall near the tread. I kinda wonder if something similar is happening here. The tread has become a little firmer with age, and it's forcing the sidewall to flex a little extra at that junction, causing the fabric to fray.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,489
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1641 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 831 Times
in
540 Posts
I think you have defective tires where the sidewall rubber is too thin to retain the sidewall pliers. Those fibers extend down to the bead and if enough of them let go, your bead could separate from your sidewall. Similar happened to an old Specialized Turbo foldable tire I had. The sidewall latex dried out and ceased to hold the kevlar/cotton sidewall fibers together and they let go at the bead, causing the innertube to blow out of the sidewall at the section where the bead separated from the sidewall.
#11
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,625
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3890 Post(s)
Liked 6,488 Times
in
3,211 Posts
Keep ridin' 'em, but wear an extra tire around your neck like Stu.
Likes For SurferRosa:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 7,663
Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1612 Post(s)
Liked 2,594 Times
in
1,225 Posts
Same thing is happening to my ears... I'd take them off and hold up to a light to see how thin they are compared to the other side. And trim those unsightly things, lol.
Likes For curbtender:
#13
Senior Member
They look like they are old and the fabric has decayed. I've seen this happen to cotton tires many times. Can also affect rayon blend, etc. IMO they are toast and you should not ride them.
Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
Likes For Salamandrine:
#14
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,055 Times
in
1,255 Posts
I've had that a couple of decades ago, rode them anyway. I think an electric facial trimmer took care of it.
Perhaps DD leans left, he just flipped his wheel around to keep us off guard.
Perhaps DD leans left, he just flipped his wheel around to keep us off guard.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 14,491
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 821 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times
in
142 Posts
They look like they are old and the fabric has decayed. I've seen this happen to cotton tires many times. Can also affect rayon blend, etc. IMO they are toast and you should not ride them.
Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
I would retire them.
#16
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
IIRC, one of the issues with the extra-light version of the Grand Bois Hetre tire was that the tread was relatively thick up to the edges, yet the sidewall was very flexible. This difference in flexibility caused tire failures at the sidewall near the tread. I kinda wonder if something similar is happening here. The tread has become a little firmer with age, and it's forcing the sidewall to flex a little extra at that junction, causing the fabric to fray.
I will see how it continues to react on my short 2-mile school commute, but I don't think I'll take this bike too far from home. If a tire fails, I'll be walking home for sure!
DD
#17
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
I think you have defective tires where the sidewall rubber is too thin to retain the sidewall pliers. Those fibers extend down to the bead and if enough of them let go, your bead could separate from your sidewall. Similar happened to an old Specialized Turbo foldable tire I had. The sidewall latex dried out and ceased to hold the kevlar/cotton sidewall fibers together and they let go at the bead, causing the innertube to blow out of the sidewall at the section where the bead separated from the sidewall.
In my case, I note none of the ends are fraying at the rim - just the tread. If they go, I believe they will at the tread.
These tires were nice and supple when I put them on. Running at 105psi recommended max. Oh, well...
DD
#18
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
DD
#19
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,055 Times
in
1,255 Posts
Roll video when you do! Should get you in the Darwinism Awards for 2019.
Likes For clubman:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 512
Bikes: 1970s Coppi/Fiorelli beater, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1972 Bob Jackson, 1970 Cilo Sprint-X, 1985 Fuji Touring Series IV, 1969 Legnano Roma
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 198 Times
in
129 Posts
that's the noise exactly - back before I knew any better, I once re-used a set of old and badly worn armadillos that should have been trashed long beforehand. The sound is like spokes settling in after a fresh truing, or maybe like the creaking of loosely-clamped saddle rails - but quieter.
I spent an entire afternoon's riding puzzling over what could be not tight enough, until the entire sidewall blew out spectacularly. Lightbulb went off when I saw all the frayed plies ...
I spent an entire afternoon's riding puzzling over what could be not tight enough, until the entire sidewall blew out spectacularly. Lightbulb went off when I saw all the frayed plies ...
Hmmm, this has me thinking. You know, when I first started riding on these tires (same wheelset, used on two different bikes) I would hear a funny noise and now I wonder if it is the tires flexing and popping threads. The noise is hard to describe - kind of a creaking noise, but not quite - but it's obvious the noise is coming from the wheel, and I think it's the tire flexing.
I will see how it continues to react on my short 2-mile school commute, but I don't think I'll take this bike too far from home. If a tire fails, I'll be walking home for sure!
DD
I will see how it continues to react on my short 2-mile school commute, but I don't think I'll take this bike too far from home. If a tire fails, I'll be walking home for sure!
DD
#21
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
DD
#22
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
Thanks!
DD
Likes For Drillium Dude:
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
Take the bike outside, slowly rotate the tire as you hold a butane lighter flame to the fibers. After they're burned off, go for a ride.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#24
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,649
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,703 Times
in
937 Posts
I'm just not a fan of the idea of using old rubber.
I ought to see if my old Specialized Ground Controls are out in the garage.
These Ground Controls came on my Stumpjumper- I thought they were pretty cool. The looked and felt kinda dry to me, but I rode them all over the place- I mean, a tire is a tire- right? So one day, I'm riding over to my brother in law's house- I hear this "flip-flip-flip-flip" sound, and I see what I think is a leaf stuck to my tire, and the noise is the "leaf" hitting the fork leg. I stop and realize the sidewall had separated and a big ol' "thumb" of innertube was sticking out between the strands and the "thumb" of innertube was striking the fork leg on every rotation. Because I thought these Ground Controls were something really special, I tried patching up the interior of the tire with patches and even a big patch of innertube- but it kept separating once I got the tire up to pressure.
I don't really know what could have happened- probably just a catastrophic bang flat, but no idea if it would have put me on the ground or whatever. A few years later, I had a set of Specialized "Touring" and "Expedition" tires that looked and felt about the same way. As plush as those tires felt- I knew riding on them was not a wise thing to do.
I ought to see if my old Specialized Ground Controls are out in the garage.
These Ground Controls came on my Stumpjumper- I thought they were pretty cool. The looked and felt kinda dry to me, but I rode them all over the place- I mean, a tire is a tire- right? So one day, I'm riding over to my brother in law's house- I hear this "flip-flip-flip-flip" sound, and I see what I think is a leaf stuck to my tire, and the noise is the "leaf" hitting the fork leg. I stop and realize the sidewall had separated and a big ol' "thumb" of innertube was sticking out between the strands and the "thumb" of innertube was striking the fork leg on every rotation. Because I thought these Ground Controls were something really special, I tried patching up the interior of the tire with patches and even a big patch of innertube- but it kept separating once I got the tire up to pressure.
I don't really know what could have happened- probably just a catastrophic bang flat, but no idea if it would have put me on the ground or whatever. A few years later, I had a set of Specialized "Touring" and "Expedition" tires that looked and felt about the same way. As plush as those tires felt- I knew riding on them was not a wise thing to do.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 659
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked 207 Times
in
126 Posts
I've been riding on these tires since mid-August and they've been progressively popping fibers on the sidewall between the sidewall and the tread. Strangely enough, the majority of the popping fibers are on the driveside both front and rear.
A couple pics:
Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.
DD
A couple pics:
Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.
DD