Considering a used Trek?
12-17-09, 10:55 AM
#351
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12-17-09, 11:39 AM
#352
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Maybe looking it this way:
One of the reasons the retail channel costs more is because it factors in the costs and overhead associated with inevitable warranty claims due to the fact that no thing made by humans is perfect.
When someone makes the choice to purchase an item through a non-retail, i.e. used, channel, they are no longer entitled to the same protections as those who purchased through retail. There are certainly exceptions, such as safety based product recalls where large numbers of products are found to have a similar defect. But that hasn't been shown to be the case here.
WR chose the channel without protection against risk.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
One of the reasons the retail channel costs more is because it factors in the costs and overhead associated with inevitable warranty claims due to the fact that no thing made by humans is perfect.
When someone makes the choice to purchase an item through a non-retail, i.e. used, channel, they are no longer entitled to the same protections as those who purchased through retail. There are certainly exceptions, such as safety based product recalls where large numbers of products are found to have a similar defect. But that hasn't been shown to be the case here.
WR chose the channel without protection against risk.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
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Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
12-17-09, 11:43 AM
#353
Senior Member
+1. The problem isn't that they failed to warranty the frame, the issue is they didn't even want to look at it in the first place. Bad juju on Treks part. Really, what would it cost them in the grand scheme of things to have the frame shipped to them, take a look at it, and at a minimum send it back and say "sorry looks like crash damage", or at best "oops our bad, but it is out of warranty, would you like a replacement at cost?"
Absent a long history of failures of this type, if I were a company only seeing the frame and being essentially blind to the personal character of the person named waterrockets, I would be forced to concluded that he got his bottom bracket stuck in there and tried to force it out using a removal tool and a hammer, breaking the sleeve free from the frame. Trek, in good faith, offered him the crash replacement deal, despite WR not being one of their customers. WR walked away from that deal, in search of a better one, which is his right.
Them's the facts of the matter, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-17-09, 11:56 AM
#354
Senior Member
I'll add that if you take his $1500, add to it the $1800 for the new frame with the 20% crash replacement, he now has a new Trek with used-but-in-good-condition components for something like $1000 less than the retail price of the whole bike. That's about the deal you get on year end closeouts through Trek dealerships.
But here's the rub. WR is only interested in price. Not brand. Thus, he places no value on the cost to him relative to the cost of a new Trek. He only is looking at the cost to him vs. the best deal he can find on some lightweight, carbon fiber frame that he can race. The Fuji he is thinking about are popular racing bikes because they are cheap. They are cheap because they are made in Asia, with the actual manufacture farmed out to the cheapest bidder. Trek, as a company, has no interest in customers of this nature. They have a market space that relies on brand loyalty. Making a deal with WR is only useful to Trek if he can be driven to consider a Trek as a future purchase. Remember, he is not and never has been a customer of Trek.
But here's the rub. WR is only interested in price. Not brand. Thus, he places no value on the cost to him relative to the cost of a new Trek. He only is looking at the cost to him vs. the best deal he can find on some lightweight, carbon fiber frame that he can race. The Fuji he is thinking about are popular racing bikes because they are cheap. They are cheap because they are made in Asia, with the actual manufacture farmed out to the cheapest bidder. Trek, as a company, has no interest in customers of this nature. They have a market space that relies on brand loyalty. Making a deal with WR is only useful to Trek if he can be driven to consider a Trek as a future purchase. Remember, he is not and never has been a customer of Trek.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-17-09, 12:23 PM
#356
30 YR Wrench
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I don't know how C'Dale is treating warranties since they were bought by the same company that supplies Walmart with bikes.
Last edited by BikeWise1; 12-17-09 at 12:28 PM.
12-17-09, 12:35 PM
#357
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Lastly, I have not wasted my time reading every post on this thread. I have chuckled, reading WR's shots at Trek in every post he makes
. As if the warranty policy was a mystery written in small print. If this was a design flaw, we would be seeing many more people stepping forward with similar problems. Also, the guy who said Trek was wrong for not even looking at it is living in fantasy land. If Trek examined the bike and concluded the damage was caused by misuse, WR's would be just as PO'd and all of the Trek haters would find other reasons to slam the company. Also, those close-up shots of the metal fittings WR posted look pretty brutal. Like someone overtightened them with a pipe wrench or something. It's hard to believe if this was a design flaw that it would take three years of hard riding (and probably thousands of miles) before breaking.
12-17-09, 12:39 PM
#358
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I believe the point is it was bought used. Not that it was raced.
I don't know how C'Dale is treating warranties since they were bought by the same company that supplies Walmart with bikes.
I don't know how C'Dale is treating warranties since they were bought by the same company that supplies Walmart with bikes.
12-17-09, 12:42 PM
#359
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Maybe looking it this way:
One of the reasons the retail channel costs more is because it factors in the costs and overhead associated with inevitable warranty claims due to the fact that no thing made by humans is perfect.
When someone makes the choice to purchase an item through a non-retail, i.e. used, channel, they are no longer entitled to the same protections as those who purchased through retail. There are certainly exceptions, such as safety based product recalls where large numbers of products are found to have a similar defect. But that hasn't been shown to be the case here.
WR chose the channel without protection against risk.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
One of the reasons the retail channel costs more is because it factors in the costs and overhead associated with inevitable warranty claims due to the fact that no thing made by humans is perfect.
When someone makes the choice to purchase an item through a non-retail, i.e. used, channel, they are no longer entitled to the same protections as those who purchased through retail. There are certainly exceptions, such as safety based product recalls where large numbers of products are found to have a similar defect. But that hasn't been shown to be the case here.
WR chose the channel without protection against risk.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
12-17-09, 01:13 PM
#360
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after slogging through all 15 pages of this I've come to a few conclusions.
1) we have WAY too much time on our hands
2) If Trek would have at least looked at the frame, whether they claimed it was damaged, not covered or
whatever, WR would have not been posting his displeasure all over Trek related threads.
1) we have WAY too much time on our hands
2) If Trek would have at least looked at the frame, whether they claimed it was damaged, not covered or
whatever, WR would have not been posting his displeasure all over Trek related threads.
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12-17-09, 01:15 PM
#361
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Good replies, Brian Ratliff.
I can't say I blame Trek for their handling of this case, nor am I surprised that WR is unhappy with his frame breaking up. The offer of a a new frame at crash replacement seems reasonable to me, and it's WR's prerogative to accept the offer or not. Hope you find something that you'll be happy with, WR.
I can't say I blame Trek for their handling of this case, nor am I surprised that WR is unhappy with his frame breaking up. The offer of a a new frame at crash replacement seems reasonable to me, and it's WR's prerogative to accept the offer or not. Hope you find something that you'll be happy with, WR.
12-17-09, 01:23 PM
#362
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Yeah, I know they don't just hand out 20% off coupons to everyone. They'll bend the crash replacement policy for a bike that wasn't crashed, I'd rather see them to bend the warranty policy for a bike that has a defect.
12-17-09, 01:25 PM
#363
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All he needs to do for Trek to look at it is leave it at the dealer, and the next time the rep is by he'll look at it.
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12-17-09, 01:35 PM
#364
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Waterrockets, make a letter and send it to Trek(or email) expressing your concerns and that you feel it's a defect in the production of the bike. I feel that there may be power in numbers. Have forum members give you permission to list their names/username as people who support you and would have expected more from Trek. Conclude that all these signatures(people) expect that Trek remedies the problem.
12-17-09, 01:45 PM
#365
Senior Member
A letter to Trek might not be a bad idea. While I don't think Trek is in the wrong on this one, there is nothing wrong with going up the ladder. I don't think it'll mean much to have the forum members sign it, but if you could get a local Trek rep and/or Trek bike shop owner on board, it might be a good idea. Not the fast track road though, and I wouldn't set my expectations very high. But worth pursuing I think.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 12-17-09 at 01:49 PM.
12-17-09, 02:14 PM
#366
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
A letter to Trek might not be a bad idea. While I don't think Trek is in the wrong on this one, there is nothing wrong with going up the ladder. I don't think it'll mean much to have the forum members sign it, but if you could get a local Trek rep and/or Trek bike shop owner on board, it might be a good idea. Not the fast track road though, and I wouldn't set my expectations very high. But worth pursuing I think.
12-17-09, 03:26 PM
#368
Herasmus B Draggin
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When LOOK took care of the frame I sold Cypress they told me that they needed to see the frame before they could make a decision on whether or not to replace it. Once they determined that it was a defect in workmanship and not caused by the owner they replaced it.
Originally Posted by one way rider
WR chose the channel without protection against risk.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
Buying retail is like buying insurance. WR chose not to buy the insurance, but he still wants the coverage.
__________________
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Last edited by One Way Rider; 12-17-09 at 03:43 PM.
12-17-09, 03:47 PM
#369
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12-17-09, 04:19 PM
#371
Senior Member
Too late. A couple years ago I saw two, $4000 Saeco team issue, Record equiped Cannondales sold in one of our local Costcos.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-17-09, 04:40 PM
#372
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Waterrockets, make a letter and send it to Trek(or email) expressing your concerns and that you feel it's a defect in the production of the bike. I feel that there may be power in numbers. Have forum members give you permission to list their names/username as people who support you and would have expected more from Trek. Conclude that all these signatures(people) expect that Trek remedies the problem.
12-17-09, 04:41 PM
#373
meow
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An amusing but true story: when my brother subscribed with Sprint, he could get insurance after his phone died; and then apply the insurance to that very same phone. Yes, true!
Last edited by bostongarden; 12-17-09 at 04:48 PM.
12-17-09, 04:43 PM
#374
meow
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You realize that they essentially did just that, right? They offered him a frame at crash replacement cost, without even looking at it. Now, then, WR's calculus is a bit skewed because he bought the bike whole for, what, $1500, which is less than what the frame costs, even with 20%. On the other hand, if he was determined to come out with a new Trek frame (rather than being essentially indifferent), 20% ain't bad on an item sold only through retail stores. It's the best deal you'll ever find on a new Trek frame.
Absent a long history of failures of this type, if I were a company only seeing the frame and being essentially blind to the personal character of the person named waterrockets, I would be forced to concluded that he got his bottom bracket stuck in there and tried to force it out using a removal tool and a hammer, breaking the sleeve free from the frame. Trek, in good faith, offered him the crash replacement deal, despite WR not being one of their customers. WR walked away from that deal, in search of a better one, which is his right.
Them's the facts of the matter, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Absent a long history of failures of this type, if I were a company only seeing the frame and being essentially blind to the personal character of the person named waterrockets, I would be forced to concluded that he got his bottom bracket stuck in there and tried to force it out using a removal tool and a hammer, breaking the sleeve free from the frame. Trek, in good faith, offered him the crash replacement deal, despite WR not being one of their customers. WR walked away from that deal, in search of a better one, which is his right.
Them's the facts of the matter, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.