ldesfor1@ithaca

today:

RECOMMEND ME A FUN TRAINER WORKOUT!!


I'm looking for a tempo/SST type workout today and have about 80' on the trainer to do it. I'm looking for a "fun" was to accumulate as much TSS in this time period (a 1x60' would be perfect, but mentally I'm uninterested in that) and a nice bit of "push" for the FTP. tomorrow is recovery, so I can hit it hard.

I was thinking of doing 4' intervals where I aim to average 92-94% then a 20-30" recovery period where I let my AP drop to 88% or so. Then start the next 4' interval. So basically 4.5' intervals @ 88%. I figure an hour of these could be cool and I'll get to stand up every 4'... which is a must for the safety of my boys.


Any other fun, motivating workouts that are SST in nature?

thanks in advance.

-L

silversx80

IMHO, the Edge 500 would be a better option (but I'm a bit biased). More battery life, up to 8 simultaneous data fields (though a bit small at that point), maps after rides, etc. Firmware will be released this quarter (supposedly) that will allow you to program training routines (i.e. programed laps).

If you want to have maps while you ride, then the 705 is the better option. I tend to know where I'm going before I head out.



Just about 3 hrs with two teammates yesterday. We did some hills, I need to lose weight, an all around fun ride in good company.

Today's plan is 1.5 hrs in nice 60 degree weather after work. My legs feel fresh enough after yesterday to plan on some rough intervals. I'll probably settls on 3, 3X3 min efforts.

silversx80

You could do intervals a la Christian Vande Velde... 1-min, 2-min, 3-min, all max with same rest between. Rinse, repeat. I'm not sure if that's what you want, but I find they're fun and they kick my ass. I do a 1-2-3-2-1, twice sometimes. It sucks.

bostongarden

[Sorry for the length of this post/reply!!]

Hi ZeCanon, I believe that we agree that np is an estimate of exertion (indeed, ap measured by the various power systems is an estimate as well). And, I am not experienced enough in training with power to suggest that np is useful or not -- at present, I track it and am still getting a feel for it.

However, I do not believe that characterizing np as "fake" is necessarily reasonable. The statistic is based on a rider's actual effort; and, it draws on, as far as I know, reasonable principles in its formulation to estimate what ap would be were one's effort constant. Again, I don't have enough feel for np to assess its usefulness. However, I would not characterize it as fake because -- I think this is where, perhaps, you are coming from -- it estimates an event/outcome which did not actually (but, certainly could) occur.

Certainly we agree that anything which constitutes an estimate is not necessarily fake, or, more importantly, is not useless. For example, assuming consideration of appropriate relationships and reasonable modeling, would we characterize as "fake" an estimate of how one would perform at high altitude with a given ride at something closer to sea level? True, the data from this ride would not be based on a ride at high altitude -- the actual data would be from a ride at closer to sea level. However, I would not characterize the estimate of performance at high altitude as being fake. In addition, if one could only train at sea level, but, were going to race at high altitude, then, I suspect that this estimate could be useful.

Indeed, I suspect that np is useful for some people.

umd

You can pick up the units for closer to $300 if you don't care about navigation maps. Also the Edge 500 does most of the 705 except maps.

umd

The screen is slightly smaller than the 705 but the same size as the old 305. The 305 and 705 both show 8 data fields as well. One nice thing they changed in the 500 is you can have 3 screens to select between where you could only have two on the 305 and 705.

ldesfor1@ithaca

thanks, but this is a way different intensity level than I need for today.

I'm looking to be in that SweetSpot, baby. By power, naturally.

dmotoguy

I have ridden my bike ONCE since late october..
I have been running ~1 mile almost every day, sometimes I throw a ~3 mile run in.. and I've been in the gym 5-6 days a week.

I finally got back on the bike last weekend and my legs felt awesome but I was extremely winded.. I didn't have any computer and I wasn't able to judge speed that well after the break..

what is the best way to get back into shape.. just ride? sst? vo2 efforts?

Greg180

Combo workout today. Fun to do on the CT. 10 minutes of Microburst at 160%, three two minute ME low cadence drills at 150%, two three minute VO2 at 130% and 10 minutes of tempo at 85%. Three minute rest in between each interval. Kind of a rest week meets system shocker. More entertaining than the standard workout. NP for whole workout in only .75 of FTP.

ZeCanon

Far from useless when used to track load over time (ie to acquire a TSS number). I happen to think it's somewhat useless when looking at individual rides or parts of rides - you either put out the power, or you didn't. Weighting high power more heavily in the average does, in a way, show how 'hard' a workout was, but the number is completely useless in the analysis of actual power numbers.

It is nice that it's always higher than AP though. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when it pops out a number I know I couldn't actually hit in a sustained effort, which it does pretty regularly.

Enthalpic

+1

It’s fake power according to the conservation of energy. NP may correlate with muscle damage etc better than AP for intermittent workouts; but it’s not real power in that you couldn’t power a lamp with that additional power.

bostongarden

Gotcha. Thank you for a thoughtful comment. Indeed, the higher number is appealing.

RichinPeoria

Cool thanks for the tip

RichinPeoria

I did my 20x20x20 again today.

Its allot more fun than just cranking at the same speed for an hour

Nate552

My NP was the same as my AP during my 20 min test on Sun. It made me angry.

fordfasterr

Max effort intervals will produce the fastest adaptations.


Try a pattern like this for a 4 week block and you should see big improvements by week 5.

Week 1: hard 5 hours, mostly sst and 1 interval day.
Week 2: harder 5 hours, 2 interval days.
Week 3: hardest 5 hours, 3 interval days.
Week 4: REST (no intervals)

Repeat.

umd

I'm glad that it's working out for you.

El Diablo Rojo

3x5k TT/5min recoveries. Good effort this morning, took one effort to get my legs to open up..had a crummy nights sleep last night. My weight has come down faster than I'd thought it would, I'm just a tick above 149 hoping to see 145 by April. Power is coming along, still down from October by 10%. First race is Sat gonna try to hang on for as long as I can and see where I end up.

El Diablo Rojo

Using NP in TT's is helpful, seeing an NP that is withing a few watts of your AP shows a more consistent effort doesn't it?

bostongarden

Agreed, given that variability is a key driver in the computation of np. Indeed, the greater the uniformity in power throughout a ride, the closer will be np to ap. If uniformity is optimal in a TT, all else being equal, then, yes, np could serve as a guide for developing a riding style which has less variation in power.

ldesfor1@ithaca

i've done rides where the NP is actually a few watts less than the AP. How's that for pacing!?

really, how does this happen?

ZeCanon

More consistent does not equal faster except in dead flat TT's... but that's besides the point. Yes, it is sometimes a nice number to have. No, it is not what you really did.

mollusk

Yesterday was an experiment. ZeCanon got me thinking that going from "base" to 2x20's to shorter intervals, etc. might not be the best approach even though my old body is used to that rhythm. This is the time of year that I start doing 2x20's, but instead I did 2x10's with a much higher intensity than I would do 2x20's. From this I will transition to his shorter intervals. I have no races that I really care about for a good long time, so I might as well try something new. I'll let you know how this works, but remember that what works for me may not work for you, i.e. your mileage may vary.

Today was a glorious day and I was thinking about going out for an active recovery ride mostly to enjoy the nice weather. Instead I spent an hour looking for my dog because my father-in-law and sister-in-law came to my house to use one of my computers and let my dog get loose in the 'hood. I did a fair amount of my searching by bike, so maybe I did get my recovery ride in.

It turns out that he was hiding under the house.

slim_77

This is a rest week, but I must be off the bike for 5 days...so, my volume is cut by 60%. I may hit some threshold intervals when I get home tonight just to match some missing volume with some intensity that will last a few more days.


...or I may get home, eat dinner and pack my bag. Its one or the other for sure.

Its my first week below 9 hrs, since training resumed. Which is way more than what I thought I'd be able to get (2009: no more than 6-7 hrs/week Dec-Apr; 2010: 9-11 hrs with some good time at L3/4 intensity.) I'm excited and feeling good.

El Diablo Rojo

A few years back we had a really bad thunderstorm roll through town while the wife and I were at work. She came home at lunch to let the dogs in but she could only find our Jack Russell the English Bull Terrier was nowhere to be found. We looked for her for three days before she finally came out from under our deck.