tanhalt

For awhile last year when I was recovering from a prostate infection (it's hell getting old) I actually did have my Adamo Road saddle on my road bike...and loved it. I had to put it much further rearward than I thought, though. One "bonus" for it on the road bike is that it makes it VERY easy to adopt the "sitting on the top tube" descending position and not feel like you're trapped under the nose of the saddle.

If I hadn't recovered enough to go back to using my perfectly good (for me) Toupe saddle on the road bike, I would have bought one for the road bike as well as the TT bike...and I've been thinking about trying out one of the new Adamo Podium saddles that a friend just purchased to try. He says it's a perfect crit saddle. Apparently it makes staying in the drops a no brainer (or, would that be a "no painer"?)

tanhalt

When you try it, don't be afraid to move it WAY further back than you'd think. One tip is that if it feels like the "nose" is too wide (i.e. you get any chafing on the inside of your thighs, etc.) then you're sitting on it too far back, so move the saddle further rearward. Oh, and you "level" it using the saddle rails as a guage, NOT the top of the saddle.

ZeCanon

Nice, thanks. I just ordered one.

For the 6x5's - most people will have to work into them. There are three ways to do that: 1) less intensity (101-103% FTP), 2) fewer intervals (start with 5), or 3) longer rest interval (1:15-1:30).

#1 is a bad idea, you need to know what the intensity feels like. #2 is a bit better, but again I feel that you need to know what doing 6 feels like. #3 is best, though you will not be getting quite the same benefit, it is probably the best way to ease into the protocol. The intervals will be at the right intensity, and you'll do the correct number of them. Try to get the rest interval down to 60s by the 2nd or 3rd time out, though.

echappist

i tried my first a month back and realized that it's nearly impossible to do without a power meter. i know what my threshold HR is, but the ramping up takes 6-7 minutes. alas, i tried to not overshoot things (aimed for 96%, 98%, 100%, 102%, and 104% of LTHR/FTP HR on successive intervals). so in effect, i probably didn't get as much as i could have. damn...

mike868y

Yea I experienced the same thing. It's not that bad doing them on the rollers w/o a PM because I just use my "FTP" gear and spin about 5-10 RPM faster. That way I can gauge pretty much how much power I'm putting out. On the road, it's a whole other issue though because of wind, hills, etc. I can't wait to get a PM.

bdcheung

When I first started doing them, I could only complete 4 or 5. By the third time I did the workout I could do all 6. Just takes some mental training.

tanhalt

Which one did you order? IME the Road version (with slightly more padding on the prongs) is easier to get used to...although once your sit bone areas are "accomodated" (sometimes necessary because you aren't spreading your weight over your entire "taint") then even the more lightly padded Race model is fine. If you start out on the Race, it may take some time working up to being able to handle the more localized pressure on your sit bones.

hammy56

For me it was much easier mentally than doing 2x30's...

mollusk

2x20's is like getting into a cold swimming pool one inch at a time and one leg at a time

6x5x1's makes me think that I have Tourette's Syndrome during the last one

aham23

my first attempt @ ZEs was 2 weeks ago. i knocked out 5 intervals at 103% exactly. i did this on the trainer. it was hard. it hurt a bit. that little one minute rest between really zooms by. i may go for the full 6 tonight since this thread has got me all jacked about them. later.

bdcheung

Go for 6, and shoot for 108%.

aham23

^^^^ challange or you just tyring to kill me?

either way, im game.

later.

ldesfor1@ithaca

I did a combo. But I also started doing them 10 weeks before my peak, so I had time to "limp" into them a bit. I was also coming of a 5x4' VO2max protocol, so I was pretty familiar with that intensity/duration. A smooth transition, ATC.

mollusk

Has anyone done a study with e-wang charts to correlate 6x5x1 vs 2x20 as an FTP push? In particular I'm thinking about the shape of the e-wang profile. I'm one of those "5 minute power is my peak" guys and the 6x5x1 protocol is doing wonders for what I'm already good at, but my personal experience is that 2x20's slightly over FTP and 2 hour hard tempo rides a bit below FTP are more efficient for me in FTP improvement. Those work my "off peak" systems in a positive way. I would think that folks with the inverse of my profile might get a greater benefit from the 6x5x1 protocol, though. This sounds like a really good thesis project for somebody.

I'm also thinking that maybe I stop doing these because it goes against the training rule of "Train your weaknesses and race your strengths." Training your personal strengths does make you feel great, though.

aham23

i got the sixth one, but couldnt get all of them much above 103%. however, i did finish that last one pretty solid.

current estimated FTP is 270. this effort was done on a KK trainer.

20 min warm up.

ZE1 = 282w
ZE2 = 281w
ZE3 = 280w
ZE4 = 279w
ZE5 = 281w
ZE6 = 288w

i didnt want to do number 6, but glad i did. thanks for that push BD. later.

forrest_m

+2

Took a few tries to be able to do these all closely grouped, finally managed to negative split a set with the last one at 109% - was planning to bump up the goal wattage a bit but now I'm without a PM for a few weeks* so I'm back to 2x20's that I can do by PE. No way I could hit the 6x5x1 without the PM, on the last 2 sets I find I have pull the wattage up *every single time* I look down at the PM...

I really like the ZCI's because I've got about six places I can do 5 min. uninterrupted within a short ride from home, but to get 20 min. without traffic/lights/whatever, I have to go a lot further afield. Unfortunately, I don't have 3 hours to ride for every scheduled workout day.


*PT wheel is being rebuilt after I killed the rim in a crash two weeks ago.

Doggus

Lucky you. That's approximately a 2 mile uninterrupted stretch right? I've been looking for something like that around here forever. Not even a nice flat loop...anywhere.

bdcheung

I do them on the trainer. More controllable. More consistent.

ZeCanon

That sucks. I don't know how you take all that stopping. I can ride for 100 miles without a stop sign practically right out my door.

johnybutts

How much is your spare bedroom?

ZeCanon

It has 14 bikes in it. You'd be fighting the cat for floor space.

johnybutts

probably still worth it.

arexjay

I managed 5 yesterday. Went out a little too hard, but it's deceiving going into the wind. Before I knew it, I was beat. Oh, the pitfalls of training by perceived exertion.

gtmandsager

Loving these. Revised FTP up 15w* based on last week and previous data and did 7 yesterday with a 5s ramp to 10s sprint after number 7 just to remind my body that, yes, after all this you usually have to sprint. And then nearly vomit and pass out.

Does anyone else experience HR numbers that are higher than typical 2x20 efforts? I was getting up to 92% of Max HR by the end of my last intervals.

*All of my power numbers are based on power curve formula based on speed from kurt kinetic website. It's ghetto, but it's the same ghetto for every workout.

mike868y

Well since these are generally done at a higher intensity than 2*20s, then that would be expected, no?