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Old 06-07-10, 04:08 PM
  #26  
Seattle Forrest
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
You missed my point. Are the cars going to be able to give you your 3 feet when they need to go around you again. As a proactive cyclist, I try to think beyond "right now."
I do this on my commute home in two places. Both of these go beyond the "right now." Unfortunately, while there's a lot of good advice to be had on the internet, it's pretty general ... you need to understand your situation well enough to make the right call at any point. There are plenty of other places I won't filter.

On 5th Avenue, traffic backs up for about three blocks; everybody wants to turn left, going to a freeway entrance to I-5. There's a four-way stop everybody is trying to reach, and I go straight. Naturally, I move to the front of the line and continue going straight, rather than waiting five minutes to get to the stop sign, where everybody else goes left.

Approaching the University Bridge, traffic often backs up from the light on 45th Ave to 53rd, with several lights in between. In a car, this would be the longest, most frustrating part of my commute. This happens along a one-way street with three travel lanes in each direction. The right lane wants to turn on 45th and get on the freeway; the left lane wants to turn to a number of other destinations. I move to the front and go straight; after the light we have two lanes going straight forward, which lead to the bridge with its protected bike lane, and my house half a mile on the other side.

The reasons I commute by bike instead of by car are that it's more enjoyable, and that being stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic is horrible in a car. These are advantages to the bike that I'm not giving up. When I pass somebody at 53rd Ave, I know they'll be at 52nd when I cross 45th, which is the bottleneck. From here it's down hill, and I'm in the clear. On the other hand, if I'm happy to wait in line when it's clear I won't miss a light cycle because of it.
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Old 06-07-10, 05:33 PM
  #27  
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I don't think its legal in Ontario -- but I haven't found anything specific in a quick google to say it is or isn't in direct relation to Bicycles, just a quote from a news article saying :
Police are reminding cyclists and motorcyclists that they are required to obey the same rules of the road as their four-wheeled friends.
That said, it seems as if its very common practice and I've never been stopped for it, or heard of anyone being stopped for it - even during the 'blitz' they do every spring.

I usually use my better judgment when doing this though, and there are many times where I will stop and wait my turn if I feel like it's unsafe. If it's a wider street with enough room for me to feel comfortable, I'll sneak my way up - but stop in a spot where there is room, or behind a car that is waiting to turn right as to not block their path.
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Old 06-07-10, 06:45 PM
  #28  
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take a peek: https://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...08_e.htm#BK110

i don't remember seeing it when i scanned through for bike laws.

what other laws would govern cycling in ontario?

j
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Old 06-07-10, 09:19 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by dgalati
Hey all,

I'm fairly new to road cycling and I have a pressing question.

Firstly, this question pertains to Ontario traffic laws.

Let me lay out a scenario:

I'm approaching a red light with several cars stopped and lined up on a single lane roadway. Would it be legal for me to "skirt" the right hand side of the lane and move up to the front of the intersection? Or do I need to treat this situation as a motorist would and wait at the back of the line?

Thanks,

Dan
Dan, Here is the link to laws n' regulations in Ontario pertaining to the roadhttps://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...es_90h08_e.htm

I couldn't find anything pertaining to bikes. But that doesn't mean there aren't laws in existence. Just that I may not have looked hard enough.
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Old 06-07-10, 09:49 PM
  #30  
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I usually wait because playing leap frog with cars sucks. It's not going to get you where you need to go any faster than if you just wait. If traffic sucks then keep on rollin

Last edited by hairnet; 06-07-10 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 06-07-10, 11:31 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Chris516
Dan, Here is the link to laws n' regulations in Ontario pertaining to the roadhttps://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...es_90h08_e.htm

I couldn't find anything pertaining to bikes. But that doesn't mean there aren't laws in existence. Just that I may not have looked hard enough.
Thanks very much, I'm going to sift through this for the next while.
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Old 06-08-10, 04:19 AM
  #32  
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I'm usually in favor of lane splitting.

Of course there are some situations it isn't a good idea. Lanes too tight together, or if I'm needing to take the lane after I pass through the intersection anyway I'd rather establish my presence at the light.

But in other situations, I prefer to split. Fairness has nothing to do with it. Yeah, I can lane split, but they can go 40+mph, so sorry if I don't feel too bad that I get a little head start at the light (or a BIG head start in bad traffic). Safety and traffic flow are more important than an arbitrary idea of fairness, IMO. Is it fair I get my own bike lane?

It's all about traffic flow. Not only is it faster for me to lane split, but so is it faster for them as well. If I'm lane splitting, I can move over sooner (assuming it's a wide enough lane to share) than if I was waiting behind a bunch of cars. Those cars that would be behind me in that situation would either have to wait until I pass through the intersection, or pass me either dangerously close to the light or inside the bloody intersection. And this is a good idea for the sake of fairness? I ain't buyin' it, sorry.

Regarding safety, I don't see any issues here either. Getting doored riding alongside parked cars is a fairly plausible danger. People enter/exit cars all the time. But waiting at a light? Come on now, the chances have got to be slim to none. And the speed that you're traveling at when filtering is unlikely to result in serious injury anyway, even from a dooring.

I just have never experienced any real cons to filtering, and filtering helps flow, so why not?

(For the record, I have no problem with scooters and such filtering, either)

Regarding legality, in some places it is simply not addressed one way or the other.
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Old 06-08-10, 04:31 AM
  #33  
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I am a member of a motorcycle forum. The subject of bicycles comes up from time to time, and the majority of the members have a negative perception of bicyclists. Here's a story one of the members told. It relates to our present topic of filtering.

I've always considered myself a reasonable man.....do unto others and all that. And I appreciate others forgiving my occasional "dumb ass" move and I try to return the favor. None of us are 100% smart all the time!

Bicyclists are pretty much like motorcyclists.....98% of them are alright folks. They're doing something they enjoy and do it in a considerate fashion. But the other 2% drive me crazy. If you want to enjoy the privilege of riding on the road, don't ride on a two lane highway at 8:00 AM or 5:00 PM when the traffic is heavy and you're holding up a line of twenty or so cars. In SC, the minimum speed on the roadway is often 35 MPH. I can't drive my car at 15 - 20 MPH without attracting the attention of local law enforcement wondering what the Hell I'm doing holding up traffic like that. If you can ride your bike at 50 - 60 MPH, come join us...if not, don't get on the busy roads.

And don't pass me on the right to get to the front of the line at stoplights when I've just spent 5 minutes trying to pass your sorry ass! In other words, be considerate and act like you've got a brain! This world does not revolve around you!

A side story....some years back I was driving a 135 foot platform Bronto (that's a big ass fire truck!) I drove it very carefully and always try to give others plenty of room. It was powered by a 550 HP Detroit Diesel with an exhaust pipe that was about 9" in diameter and exited just in front of the rear wheels on the officer's side. It had a pretty significant "jet blast" and I would normally let off the accelerator when passing folks standing at the edge of the road or street....just common courtesy.

Well, I'm driving back to our station late in the day (busy traffic all trying to get home) and I come upon a bicyclist and he's riding about 4 - 5 feet from the edge of the road. Traffic's heavy and after a minute or so I find a break where I can give him all of the lane and ease by him without blowing him off the road. No problem, right? At the next light, here he comes by us on the shoulder of the road. Light turns green and off we go.....cars again having to wait to get by him. We finally get our turn and, once again, I wait for opposing traffic to break so I can get by him without crowding and/or blowing him off the road. He could have waited in line, but I think maybe he'll realize what's happening behind him and not do it again. Next light....here he comes on the right again....right up to the front. Now everyone is getting pissed at him and when the light turns green, he holds us up again. But this time, when it's my turn, I get a little closer than I normally would when passing and nail the accelerator. (Please understand that this truck doesn't accelerate very quickly but the exhaust blast will move big dogs and small children if not tied down.) I watched in my right side mirror as he did a "slow motion" ride into the ditch.....didn't fall but just rode right into the bottom of the ditch. I got a number of "thumbs up" from drivers all the way back to our station. Payback's a *****!
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Old 06-08-10, 04:48 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Motorcycle Forum via Paul Barnard
I've always considered myself a reasonable man.....do unto others and all that. And I appreciate others forgiving my occasional "dumb ass" move and I try to return the favor. None of us are 100% smart all the time!
Translation: I'm about to say something a lot of people will find stupid, but trying to cover myself at the same time.

Bicyclists are pretty much like motorcyclists.....98% of them are alright folks. They're doing something they enjoy and do it in a considerate fashion. But the other 2% drive me crazy. If you want to enjoy the privilege of riding on the road, don't ride on a two lane highway at 8:00 AM or 5:00 PM when the traffic is heavy and you're holding up a line of twenty or so cars. In SC, the minimum speed on the roadway is often 35 MPH. I can't drive my car at 15 - 20 MPH without attracting the attention of local law enforcement wondering what the Hell I'm doing holding up traffic like that. If you can ride your bike at 50 - 60 MPH, come join us...if not, don't get on the busy roads.
Already losing credibility as I hear the standard chant of motorists...

And don't pass me on the right to get to the front of the line at stoplights when I've just spent 5 minutes trying to pass your sorry ass! In other words, be considerate and act like you've got a brain! This world does not revolve around you!

A side story....some years back I was driving a 135 foot platform Bronto (that's a big ass fire truck!) I drove it very carefully and always try to give others plenty of room. It was powered by a 550 HP Detroit Diesel with an exhaust pipe that was about 9" in diameter and exited just in front of the rear wheels on the officer's side. It had a pretty significant "jet blast" and I would normally let off the accelerator when passing folks standing at the edge of the road or street....just common courtesy.

Well, I'm driving back to our station late in the day (busy traffic all trying to get home) and I come upon a bicyclist and he's riding about 4 - 5 feet from the edge of the road. Traffic's heavy and after a minute or so I find a break where I can give him all of the lane and ease by him without blowing him off the road. No problem, right? At the next light, here he comes by us on the shoulder of the road. Light turns green and off we go.....cars again having to wait to get by him. We finally get our turn and, once again, I wait for opposing traffic to break so I can get by him without crowding and/or blowing him off the road. He could have waited in line, but I think maybe he'll realize what's happening behind him and not do it again.
Which is exactly a situation I named as not a good time to filter. When you have to take the lane anyway.

Next light....here he comes on the right again....right up to the front. Now everyone is getting pissed at him and when the light turns green, he holds us up again. But this time, when it's my turn, I get a little closer than I normally would when passing and nail the accelerator. (Please understand that this truck doesn't accelerate very quickly but the exhaust blast will move big dogs and small children if not tied down.) I watched in my right side mirror as he did a "slow motion" ride into the ditch.....didn't fall but just rode right into the bottom of the ditch. I got a number of "thumbs up" from drivers all the way back to our station. Payback's a *****!]
Translation: He held me up so I taught that guy a lesson and made him crash. Other impatient people approved as I removed their obstacle for them.
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Old 06-08-10, 05:18 AM
  #35  
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Do not pass on the right. You lose control of the lane. You'll get squeezed out by all the cars trying to get across the intersection.
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Old 06-08-10, 07:31 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
I agree with this, but you better hold on for the onslaught. Advocating running read lights and stops signs won't play well with this crowd.
I'm all for following the laws. I also see reasonable exceptions such as you describe. The key thing here, is that you should not interfere with the right of way of another vehicle. There are places where I run red lights, generally where a side street empties onto a busier street with no hope of the light tripping my way. If there is motor traffic going my way, I usually will wait for the light. If there is no traffic on my road, and a large gap on the main road, I go. If anything that's helping the other vehicles' right of way because it means they aren't having to stop for me.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 06-08-10, 08:30 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by powers2b
Crack is common is some neigborhoods around here, that doesn't make it legal.
Nice reasoning skills there. You should be a judge.

Enjoy
I never said anything about the legality of the practice. Just that it's SOP for most cyclists here.
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Old 06-08-10, 09:41 AM
  #38  
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The Ontario HTA does not specifically address the legality of what you describe.

I'll let the BF wisdom machine continue to instruct you on it's advisability.

Although I'm pretty sure you didn't ask.
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Old 06-08-10, 10:59 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by paul barnard
and don't pass me on the right to get to the front of the line at stoplights when i've just spent 5 minutes trying to pass your sorry ass! In other words, be considerate and act like you've got a brain! This world does not revolve around you
ftw!
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Old 06-08-10, 11:05 AM
  #40  
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Single lane wise, you might be better off waiting because they all will have to go around in the same lane as you once more. Here in Toronto, main streets have two same direction lanes , this is where I thread it and forget it.
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Old 06-08-10, 11:20 AM
  #41  
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Lane splitting is illegal in Ontario(EDIT: mostly this law is applied to motorcyclists riding the zipper in traffic). Never heard of a cyclist getting a ticket for doing it safely on the right curb. There is some legal greyzone there. Watch out for right turn without signal and passenger car doors. Don't get caught in a truck's blind spot/killzone.

If you feel guilty, think of it this way... all those drivers probably split the lane with you instead of passing properly so if somebody gives you trouble just ask them if they changed lanes to pass you. It's just being efficient and there is no problem if you're doing it safely and responsibly.

If you were driving and there was a gap to make a right-turn to the right of a vehicle going straight would you split the lane or wait behind that car while everybody honked? It's the same deal for cyclists except our gaps are tiny... 4ft is plenty.

Last edited by electrik; 06-08-10 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 06-08-10, 11:28 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer
Single lane wise, you might be better off waiting because they all will have to go around in the same lane as you once more. Here in Toronto, main streets have two same direction lanes , this is where I thread it and forget it.
Yeah, if everybody is going to pass you again then whatever... a lot of times certain intersections 50% will be turning right. Filtering forward is also good to get a jump on the lights if there is a "pinch scenario" up ahead.
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Old 06-08-10, 01:57 PM
  #43  
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I'm also perfectly happy to pass on the left of the cars as well. Staying right isn't always the best practice, just be adaptable to the conditions.
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Old 06-08-10, 02:28 PM
  #44  
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I go to the front but watch for the light turning green. When the light turns green I am in the field of vision of the car behind and am not next to a car.
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Old 06-08-10, 05:01 PM
  #45  
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So far I have gathered these important principles of law on this subject:

Laws pertaining to motorcycles are also applicable to cyclists
Like motorcycles are not allowed to drive on shoulders so cyclists are not allowed either.

If it is not recommended for safety then it is also illegal

Riding as far right as possible to share a lane with a car is illegal .

Things that are not courteous to your fellow man are illegal
Like being overweight and wearing spandex

Quoting Wikipedia has a higher legal precedence then that of a quote from law

In the absence of any clear prohibition in law the above principles are true and valid

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Old 06-11-10, 01:14 AM
  #46  
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Here in cowtown, passing on the right is illegal. I used to pass cars on the right with my scooter so that I could get to a side road, but I was always aware that I could get slapped with a huge ticket, get squished, and that I was annoying a line of motorists. I told myself it was alright because I could be on the side-road before the stop light had turned green again, and then the line of cars behind me wouldn't have to pass my slow little scooter.

Motorist rage is exponential. If they're angry about having to pass you once, they're going to be waaaaaay more pissed off when they have to pass you a second or third time because you're breaking the law and passing on the right. It's one thing if you're passing so that you can turn off onto a pathway or something, but passing on the right just so you can get passed by the same cars is asking for trouble in my opinion...
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Old 06-11-10, 08:06 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Who is at fault if the driver at the front of the line makes a right turn into you when the light turns green?
If you come from behind and place yourself to the right of a car signaling right then it's your fault. If I'm threading up and I see a RT signal from the car in the front of the line I move over to the left of curb lane. Often I will stop at the left side of the curb lane just to allow cars to RT on the red light without worry. Many cars won't do it though.... pass on the right for the turn. Others ask, once I tell them I've done this to allow them to turn right with no worries, they're pretty grateful for the head's up riding that considers them as well. If they're going straight, I go a bit early and I'm across the lane back in the centre/right-ish position long before the car is across the intersection.

That to the right mindset gets enough people killed in that they insist to stay right of a car that is in the act or turning. It's horrifying to see.
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Old 06-11-10, 08:52 AM
  #48  
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If you do pass on the right it's a good idea to stop between the 1st and 2nd car.
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