View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
178
10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
94
5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
648
38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
408
24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
342
20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll
The helmet thread
08-01-12, 01:27 AM
#3126
Bicikli Huszár
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Not only that, but I thought the reason why all the organized rides require a helmet is because of "insurance reasons". At least that is what they say. I am not a lawyer, but wouldn't allowing people to ride without state required equipment void the policy and open up a lawsuit?
That said, if it is a night ride, or if the state doesn't specify that, you could have a point. Never thought about it.
08-01-12, 07:21 AM
#3129
Senior Member
You mean the first fourteen words that begin with "We suggest..."?
08-01-12, 07:22 AM
#3130
Senior Member
Not only that, but I thought the reason why all the organized rides require a helmet is because of "insurance reasons". At least that is what they say. I am not a lawyer, but wouldn't allowing people to ride without state required equipment void the policy and open up a lawsuit?
08-01-12, 07:23 AM
#3131
Senior Member
No kidding. I'm still waiting for proof positive that the "insurance requires it" helmet requirement excuse is legit. Or that there are citable lawsuits regarding helmet use where a shop or group was sued for not requiring helmets...
08-01-12, 07:30 AM
#3132
Senior Member
...in the meanwhile, I stumbled upon this story in which 79 year old Stephen R. Covey, author of the top-selling motivational book "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," died on Monday at an Idaho hospital from injuries he suffered in a bicycle accident.
To display the whacked-out logic of Helmeteers, his publicist was quoted to say,
"He just lost control on his bike and crashed," Lund said. "He was wearing a helmet, which is good news."
To not be able to see a helmet hasn't helped, even when someone dies, is pretty whacked.
To display the whacked-out logic of Helmeteers, his publicist was quoted to say,
"He just lost control on his bike and crashed," Lund said. "He was wearing a helmet, which is good news."
To not be able to see a helmet hasn't helped, even when someone dies, is pretty whacked.
Read it again big boy. The publicist assumed his helmet prevented "long-term damage", when it didn't. The "good news" was based on an assumption that was wrong. It wasn't "good news" at all.
My post (and link) was all about the whacked-out logic people have about helmets, which is all about the "good news" quote. I didn't misrepresent it.
My post (and link) was all about the whacked-out logic people have about helmets, which is all about the "good news" quote. I didn't misrepresent it.
So hard to revise history on the interwebz...
08-01-12, 09:11 AM
#3135
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
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I came upon a night group (rec) ride last summer, instead of zipping past, I mingled and worked my way up. by the time I was in front, three people had told me I needed to wear a helmet if I wanted to ride with them. riding 12mph, 20 person blob formation, on a dark US hwy., yep I need a helmet alright but insurance?
I blame people's love of enforcing rules as the reason group's are forced to wear helmets. that and "common sense" needs to be upheld and respected at all times if we're to remain a civilized nation. common sense is the un-written rule, which acts like a law when people are looking.
Last edited by Rx Rider; 08-01-12 at 09:17 AM. Reason: yes
08-02-12, 06:43 AM
#3136
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six
What is sad that my post hits so close to home that the anti helmet cult is too embarrassed to talk about it. In fact the hairy chested anti helmet cult is very little different than gang members in big cities. They both feed off other members, and are seeking reinforcement with their flawed culture.
What is sad that my post hits so close to home that the anti helmet cult is too embarrassed to talk about it. In fact the hairy chested anti helmet cult is very little different than gang members in big cities. They both feed off other members, and are seeking reinforcement with their flawed culture.
08-02-12, 06:48 AM
#3137
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Yes, of course. No self-respecting researcher would use words that implied that what they had found was proven, like a mathematical theorem can be proven. "It appears"... "the data suggests"... "would lead to the probability that"... Is the routine vocabulary of research papers.
08-02-12, 09:18 AM
#3138
Senior Member
six
What is sad that my post hits so close to home that the anti helmet cult is too embarrassed to talk about it. In fact the hairy chested anti helmet cult is very little different than gang members in big cities. They both feed off other members, and are seeking reinforcement with their flawed culture.
What is sad that my post hits so close to home that the anti helmet cult is too embarrassed to talk about it. In fact the hairy chested anti helmet cult is very little different than gang members in big cities. They both feed off other members, and are seeking reinforcement with their flawed culture.
08-02-12, 11:11 AM
#3139
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some states don't even require drives ed anymore.. any parent can signoff on their childs driving and get them a license. We don't teach motorists the rules of the road, i'm not sure making cyclists the brunt of education would change anything at all.. just as the anti-helmet people seem to cite cases where cars didn't give cyclists as much room while wearing a helmet as a reason to not wear a helmet.. so bass ackwards to me that we agree to dillute our safety equipment needs in lieu of teaching drivers to be more considerate of cyclists. Helmets in most cases don't do much to protect against cars on a deathwish for you, however they do a fine job for inevible accidents of cycling.. be it tree limbs and not estimating how tall you are to tumping over because you couldn't unclick or group riding and someone wiping out and crossing wheels in front of you.
oh well.. i just find it amazing we punish ourselves so much on the debate of helmet and safety training for cycling yet we avoid at all costs actually making those creating the hazards more aware of the risks of driving.. and yes, we have some dumb cyclists who need a little edumacation, i'm all for that.
Alcohol be it the auto driver or the biker accounts for 34% of cyclist deaths on the road with 1/5th of all cyclists killed in 2010 being drunk, 72% of the fatalities being urban and NOT at intersections. almost every safety course i've seen teach rules of the road and how to handle situations which stastically are low on causes of death to begin with.. but i am a suburbanite so i don't get to see what urban cycling advocy groups teach directly.
and yes, i'm completely biased and very much for safer conditions in general.. bike paths, overpasses/underpasses for major roads (especially on routes to schools and community parks / pools / playgrounds).. i would much rather fund those in lieu of funding helmet laws for the sake of passing a helmet law too but i don't see helmet laws being the reason cycling declined for a while to begin with.
08-02-12, 01:39 PM
#3140
Senior Member
some states don't even require drives ed anymore.. any parent can signoff on their childs driving and get them a license. We don't teach motorists the rules of the road, i'm not sure making cyclists the brunt of education would change anything at all.. just as the anti-helmet people seem to cite cases where cars didn't give cyclists as much room while wearing a helmet as a reason to not wear a helmet.. so bass ackwards to me that we agree to dillute our safety equipment needs in lieu of teaching drivers to be more considerate of cyclists. Helmets in most cases don't do much to protect against cars on a deathwish for you, however they do a fine job for inevible accidents of cycling.. be it tree limbs and not estimating how tall you are to tumping over because you couldn't unclick or group riding and someone wiping out and crossing wheels in front of you.
She calls me "grandpa" because I drive the speed limit.
08-02-12, 02:25 PM
#3141
Senior Member
I didn't say, the publicist was "whack" for stating that it was a good thing he was wearing a helmet even though he died.
The publicist assummed what many helmeteers do, that a helmet has provoded protection in cases where it can't. That isn't good news, that's "whacked"
08-02-12, 02:31 PM
#3142
Senior Member
This whacked out logic is presently on display in London, where a driver (arrested for suspicion of dangerous driving cusing death) of an Olympic bus ran over a cyclist, killing him, has high profile British cyclists endorsing and encouraging helmet use for impacts with motor vehicles.
Helmets are made for simple falls, not collisions with motor vehicles. That's just whack if you think that's what they're for.
Helmets are made for simple falls, not collisions with motor vehicles. That's just whack if you think that's what they're for.
08-02-12, 04:33 PM
#3143
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There was a short discussion on BBC radio today about the 'Wiggins effect' causing more people to cycle and how not to get killed on a bike. Only one commenter that I heard seemed to have his head screwed on, talking about prioritising motorist education, cyclist training etc. The others were all parroting the usual 'you wouldn't drive without wearing a seatbelt, make cyclists wear helmets, I fell off/my helmet broke and so I would have died without it' nonsense. And there was me thinking the irrationality was mostly confined to the other side of the pond...
08-02-12, 04:46 PM
#3144
Senior Member
Irrationality is a human trait, so it's present everywhere however, in matters regarding cycling, it seems the irrationality is in greater abundance where cycling is less within the "norms" of society.
Bikebiz has coverage on the death showing the rational approach outweighing the irrational reactions
https://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/new...-debate/013440
Bikebiz has coverage on the death showing the rational approach outweighing the irrational reactions
https://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/new...-debate/013440
Last edited by closetbiker; 08-02-12 at 04:50 PM.
08-02-12, 04:48 PM
#3145
Senior Member
Irrationality is a human trait, so it's present everywhere however, in matters regarding cycling, it seems the irrationality is in greater abundance where cycling is less within the "norms" of society.
Bikebiz has coverage on the death that shows the rational outweighs the irrational
https://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/new...-debate/013440
... another news outlet chimes in with crap saying cycling is dangerous and helmets are what's going to protect a rider in collision with traffic
https://news.sky.com/story/967839/cyc...incident-named
Bikebiz has coverage on the death that shows the rational outweighs the irrational
https://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/new...-debate/013440
... Wiggins said, “There are a lot of things that need to be addressed with cycling at the moment on the roads....It's dangerous and London is a busy city and a lot of traffic. I think we have to help ourselves sometimes..."
Ctc coordinator Chris Peck said: "Making helmets compulsory would stifle cycling without improving greatly improving safety. Bradley Wiggins celebrated his victory at Hampton Court - without a helmet..."
... Bicycle helmets are designed for low speed crashes from head height to the ground and offer next to no protection in smashes with motor vehicles....
Ctc coordinator Chris Peck said: "Making helmets compulsory would stifle cycling without improving greatly improving safety. Bradley Wiggins celebrated his victory at Hampton Court - without a helmet..."
... Bicycle helmets are designed for low speed crashes from head height to the ground and offer next to no protection in smashes with motor vehicles....
https://news.sky.com/story/967839/cyc...incident-named
... The tragedy has prompted calls for better road safety for cyclists on Britain's roads, led by cycling stars Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish.
Team GB's Cavendish told Sky News that cycling helmets were a necessity...
And Olympic gold medallist and Tour de France champion Bradley Wiggins told a news conference: "It's dangerous and London is a busy city and a lot of traffic..."
Team GB's Cavendish told Sky News that cycling helmets were a necessity...
And Olympic gold medallist and Tour de France champion Bradley Wiggins told a news conference: "It's dangerous and London is a busy city and a lot of traffic..."
Last edited by closetbiker; 08-02-12 at 11:09 PM.
08-02-12, 05:40 PM
#3146
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You see, conversation stops when people refuse to listen to sober reasoning based on sound statistics, and stobbornly stick to anecdotal evidence and greul propaganda.
The facts are out there. They have been linked to again and again, to no effect. If you wish, I can take you through them. If not, you should realize that YOU are the one who's being smartass.
08-02-12, 05:46 PM
#3147
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Given that helmets probably are helpfull in some cases, and that they don't have any statistically significant beneficial effect, I think the logical answer is: equally as many as helmets save.
08-02-12, 05:47 PM
#3148
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I actually would like to know what makes the anti helmet zealots tick. I have one theory----they are the hairy chested types that want to project an image, but really know they should be wearing a helmet.
So they post all the anti helmet diatribes that become a sounding board for like types. That way they are seeking and find reinforcement of their flawed judgement.
So they post all the anti helmet diatribes that become a sounding board for like types. That way they are seeking and find reinforcement of their flawed judgement.
If not, look it up.
08-02-12, 05:50 PM
#3149
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I keep wondering about the rotational injury thing and it seems it would have a bigger affect the faster you were going when it occurred.
going 10 mph doesn't seem there would be enough force to worry about, where as 40-50 would worry me. but then at those speeds the limits of the helmet's protection have been exceeded.
going 10 mph doesn't seem there would be enough force to worry about, where as 40-50 would worry me. but then at those speeds the limits of the helmet's protection have been exceeded.
08-04-12, 12:27 AM
#3150
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tried a new way to biff tonight, I rode a wheelie right into the ground. kind of funny really, once I got off the ground with a skinned elbow/knee, bruised thigh and ribs that will be talking to me for a week or so . . .the imaginary helmet still without a scuff. I wonder if some folks like to fall on their head where as I really enjoy beating the rib cage. I did grow up with a trampoline and I credit that for keeping the head off the ground during a fall (at least the funny ones). now if I can just find styrofoam ribguards I'll live forever!
the best part was some teenage boy asked me if I was okay, so today's youth ain't as bad as reported by old farts.
the best part was some teenage boy asked me if I was okay, so today's youth ain't as bad as reported by old farts.