Rowan

The level of interval training depends, as far as I can see, on the terrain in which gareth might be training. If he has lots of hills around him, and attacks them in a managed way, he will likely improve without having to resort to timed all-out sprint intervals as a flatlander would.

I didn't discuss weights training. But for mine, if you do decide to use weights, use them light and use them in high reps. Concentrate on the abs and back. You can increase some strength in the legs with squats, but if you start to get patella tendonitis, you may have to compensate for imbalance in the quad muscles that causes the kneecap to move off track.

And depending on the height of handlebar below seat, you may have to do some work to increase neck muscle strength to avoid Shermers Neck.

Other things to consider when and if they arise will be hotfoot which is influenced by shoe design, bike shorts which have an evil ability to change from comfortable to excruciating, and saddle (likewise with shorts).

Carbonfiberboy 

Oh, I respectfully disagree. I ride with a group that trains specifically for randoing and other LD mountain riding and that's what we do. But our rides aren't racer rides of 2-3 hours. We do a weekly group ride of a minimum of 30 miles in winter, but usually hilly rides of 55-80 miles, with some centuries, distance and elevation gain increasing as the season approaches. My advice to newbies is to hang on 'til the blood starts from their eyesockets. Doing that once a week works like a charm. In fact, it is a periodized training plan. Call it speed work, hill repeats, whatever, it's all of those. It made those of us who partook in such idiocy quite fast over 8 to 24 hour+ rides. It's certainly not necessary to ever ride over 80 miles in preparation for the first 200k brevet, RAMROD, a double century, or such like. It's just necessary to ride hard. Our ride leaders are experienced distance riders who know how to ramp it up.

That said, it may be slightly more effective to use a carefully designed solo training program, but it isn't 1/4 as much fun and it doesn't teach group riding skills. 30 miles in 37° rain today. We dialed the distance down, but it was good practice and we all had a great time. Did a little TT work on the flat sections. No one in their right mind is going to go out and do crap like that without some peer pressure. Uh, present company excepted.

cafzali

Certain types of weight and strength training can really help improve a person's overall flexibility, which is beneficial for cyclists in that it helps you more efficiently transfer power from your body to the bike. It's also very good overall cardiovascular training, if properly designed, because you get short periods of intense cardiovascular work followed by a proper-timed recovery. As you get stronger, you'll soon notice that the amount of time it takes your body to recover from an intense set of reps dramatically falls.

benajah

Also, I intervals done before you have good base fitness built up can very easily lead to injury, very easily.

Rowan

It's one of the reasons why gareth needed to be asked how he intended to ride the randonnees. If he is riding well enough to maintain a 15km/h + 2km/h buffer, he should be able to handle just about all rides within the time limits.

It is worthwhile to develop speed, not necessarily to finish faster, but to get more sleep on the longer rides. And that is when speed can have real benefits.

It's also interesting to read that riders should introduce intervals and base all their training on them. Many roadies use 200 randonnees for pre-season training, but the numbers drop off rapidly in the 300s, and then for the 400 and up, they virtually disappear.

There is more to maintaining speed over long distances. Endurance starts with a good base -- check the early pre-season training programs of any quality football team (doesn't matter what code), and you will find a lot of distance work before the intervals start. The effort put in on the road often will determine how far they go at the other end of the season.

People also tend to concentrate on their fitness, when they also need to pay real attention to their form on the bike. Form is something that deteriorates rapidly when fatigue sets in, and that can lead to repetitive and other injuries.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, but . . . folks figure it out. It's pretty easy to finish a 200 even if you screw it up, but it's good experience. Then the 300 is a little more and you get to use your lights at least a little. By the time the 400 comes around one should hopefully be strong enough to finish by midnight without too much drama.

Which is the reason that my group has stressed getting the speed up. All the rest of it comes together quickly, once one has the speed. One can learn how to get through controls quickly, how to pace, how to eat and drink in just a few long days on the bike. But speed takes all winter and spring and a lot of hard work. Speed gets the suffering way down on a brevet, but it only comes from suffering in training. It has been said that one banks the pain against later withdrawals.

Of course you are correct about sleep and form. Totally. It's worthwhile shooting for a 16 mph average for brevets up to 600k. The faster one goes, the more likely one is to ride most of it in daylight, which which greatly reduces time on the bike, stress, and butt wear. It doesn't take talent to ride that average, just hard training, a lot of it. I think most randos work too much on the distance aspect and not enough on the speed and weight loss.

I think one doesn't see that many roadies on long brevets because very few people are that nuts. Going nuts takes everyone differently. Some focus on one thing, some on another. Sooner or later, most riders ask themselves the simple question, "Why would I do that?" The rest rando.

garethzbarker

Rowan that's really good information. I read all the posts actually and thanks to everyone.

I have a heart rate monitor and I know how to use it, I do not have a power meter. I started riding bike a few years ago for weight loss. I lost some weight (still more to go) and got interested in weekend touring mostly. This year my goal was to get up to an imperial and a 200km in a day and leave the clyde club. I just barely got the 200k in a supported event. It was a fairly flat 200, I didn't have to carry anything, I fell behind and it took everything I had I experienced a strong amount of heart rate drift after 100km so I have some experience with distance but I'm not that fit. Oh and I left the clyde status a few weeks back.

I'm interested in les than 24 hour endurance events lately. I want to do the 200, 300 Brevets and I'm considering a 400 and a Fleche. My distance average speed is around 20kmph. I'd like to get it up and strengthen myself for hills. One reason for this is I don't use GPS and I live in Korea. I can read Korean but they have weird systems for roads so I know I'll be scratching my head at some intersections; I need some buffer time for that. I'd also like to be prepared in case I have mechanical issues or simply want to sit down for a decent meal

I have a couple of bikes that feel good on long rides, light touring was my hobby so learning about bike fit was really important. Still not sure which one I'll use, probably the light one (a Roubaix). I'm training on a Surly with ice tires when I have the balls to get out in the cold.

I realize that lots of long rides would be a great way to train but I'm kind of limited by weather currently and generally don't have a lot of days I can go disappear off for that long even when the weather is perfect. What I DO have is a gym membership and about 1.5 hours each morning to work out. So It led me to think about intervals on the cycling machine. I was going to just ride everyday in Zone2 but I have heard this is not long enough to improve my endurance and obviously I won't gain speed. This morning I did a LT test on the machine and it feels fine for cycling. I managed to hit 120rpms without a bounce, it has a power meter, it has 20 electronically controlled speeds so besides being a little more upright than I like I think and having a terrible saddle it will work for cycle training. The saddle isn't a problem, for those of us that have ridden all day just an hour or two on anything is fine.

Actually any advice on how to spend this gym time in a way that improves my cycling would be great. I will for sure do core work on my recovery days, last year I did core and it really helped my riding; I could ride lower and I was much more comfortable in general. I can't really do heavy intervals this early in anyway so what's the best way to improve my base with shorter gym rides? I read riding shortish (90minute) zone 3 rides during the base phase can help. Those kinds of rides might have me recovering more than I'd like though.

My idea is I'd like to get as much quality training with my morning hours keeping in mind that weight lose is very important to me. losing more weight would help me get up the hills easier.

On the subject on intervals... I've read some and read your comments and I don't think I should do intervals above my LT if I'm trying to improve longer distance speed. Stuff above LT improves sprinting and stuff below improves aerobic capacity right?

Gareth

garethzbarker

haha

merlinextraligh

First, working above LT will raise your power at LT, which is a good thing for endurance. The higher your power is at LT, the longer you can ride at a pace that's well below your LT power.

Second, there's a gorwing amount of data, that very short efforts, even 30 second intervals, will increase your endurance. See. e.g. https://www.cptips.com/intervl.htm https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16825308 https://www.training4cyclists.com/11/ https://www.active.com/cycling/Articl...rance_Training

For your purposes, longer intervals aimed at raising your power at threshold will give you the most improvement for your purpose. But almost any form of interval will help you. The key is do them intensely, with the intensity being more important, than the specific interval duration.

Thus, I'd mix your interval program up. You can do 2x20's or 3x20's when you have more time. But nothing wrong with doing 10x1's, or other shorter intervals, particularly when you have less time.

On longer rides, you can go easier, and still get a training effect. On shorter rides, you need to really kick your own ass, to get the most training effect.

WingSuit

your reasoning ability is humorous. of course what you think works for you based on the way you "feel" would always work for everyone else. if you think stronger legs won't help you climb, so be it.