Old TA crank on a Campy BB spindle?
#1
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Old TA crank on a Campy BB spindle?
I've done some reading online about doing this but would like to hear from someone who has actually tried it.
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.
Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?
Thanks
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.
Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?
Thanks
#2
Senior Member
I've done some reading online about doing this but would like to hear from someone who has actually tried it.
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.
Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?
Thanks
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.
Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?
Thanks
Phil Wood way back made three different double chainwheel bottom brackets, the model suitable for TA and Campagnolo cranks was the same. Bare in mind though that you can adjust the Phil from side to side to obtain the best chainline, I think you will find that the two cranks will present the chainrings a different amount from center when using the same spindle. Your needs will determine if that works for you.
#3
Senior Member
I've used all kinds of combination of spindles and cranks. Its obvious when they are not compatible.
One thing though is cranks are spaced differently. Watch the chainline. Again, its obvious when its assembled and the chainring is hitting the chainstay, or the front derailleur can't be adjusted out far enough.
Combinations I have used without any problem:
Stronglight spindle/Nervar Star crank
SunTour Superbe spindle/Campy crank
Japanese? /Stronglight 49d
Sugino spindle/Stronglight 93
Word of caution though. I build bikes to ride. If the parts fit and stay put, and perform well, its a success. Not to picky in other words.
One thing though is cranks are spaced differently. Watch the chainline. Again, its obvious when its assembled and the chainring is hitting the chainstay, or the front derailleur can't be adjusted out far enough.
Combinations I have used without any problem:
Stronglight spindle/Nervar Star crank
SunTour Superbe spindle/Campy crank
Japanese? /Stronglight 49d
Sugino spindle/Stronglight 93
Word of caution though. I build bikes to ride. If the parts fit and stay put, and perform well, its a success. Not to picky in other words.
#4
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Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I'll definitely have to mount the crank with front derailleur installed, it sounds. I note there seems to be plenty of crank taper showing with the arm installed by hand, but not tightened down, so it doesn't look like the bolts will bottom out on the axle. But the chain line thing is a good caution.
Those are some interesting combos, Big Ring. I don't know much about this stuff but I wouldn't have thought a Sun Tour spindle would play nicely with a Campy crank. Same with the other Japanese spindles with Stronglight cranks. But, if they work, they work.
Those are some interesting combos, Big Ring. I don't know much about this stuff but I wouldn't have thought a Sun Tour spindle would play nicely with a Campy crank. Same with the other Japanese spindles with Stronglight cranks. But, if they work, they work.
#5
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The crank may sit further inboard on the Campy spindle, I believe? I tried to fit a TA crank on a Campy bb and it was grinding against the stay and cup, if I recall correctly. Of course, your mileage may vary. Only one way to find out....
#6
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I did mount a SL 93 on a generic Shimano BB without a problem. The spindle was OA 4mm different but still shifted fine, SL 118/Shimano 114. I have spacers should I need them.
#7
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Didn't TA use french-tapered spindles and Campy ISO? In my experience french-taper is pretty close to JIS, not ISO. But try it on there and see if you can rock the spindle back and forth at all when you push it on as far as you can by hand. If not, it should work, as long as you still have enough space that it won't snug up all the way to the shoulder when you tighten the bolt.
I've used French cranks with Japanese BB sets with good results too.
I've used French cranks with Japanese BB sets with good results too.
Last edited by SuperLJ; 12-03-13 at 10:25 AM.
#9
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Thread Starter
Ah. Good point, Bob. I note the right hand measurement of the two spindles is different. TA spindle is longer. But I figured it was the thick cup difference with Campy. Have to try it.
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This might be useful to some: https://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
#13
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Thread Starter
All very interesting. And a bit confusing, to me, anyway. I note in that Sheldon chart, SJX, that it shows the #344 spindle as being 118.5 in length. Colonel wrote to tell me the Sutherland's 6th edition shows 116.5, with an A-B-C measurements as 30.0 - 55.5 - 31.0. And that the "closest" taper is JIS!
My 344 spindle is 115 long and measures 28.0 - 55.5 - 33.0.
I'm thinking that TA may have standardized their spindles, or, the spindle used on the mid 70's Professional crank became obsolete. With the same center measurements between the races, but longer length, maybe the "newer" spindle worked out to be the same as the older one. Not sure.
However, Bibliobob has a good point. I did just take another look at my Sutherland's 2nd edition and note they used something called "end factor", a bit confusing but it appears the Nuovo Record right hand end factor was 6. and the TA right hand end factor was 9.5. Which means the crank will, theoretically, sit 3.5 mm further inboard on the Campy spindle than the TA spindle. Guess I'll just have to try it and see if it works.
My main concern was the spindle flats, and now that Sutherland's 6th says closest is JIS, and SuperLJ mentions "French" tapers, I'm not sure I'm less confused than before. But, I'm easily confused. Thanks guys.
My 344 spindle is 115 long and measures 28.0 - 55.5 - 33.0.
I'm thinking that TA may have standardized their spindles, or, the spindle used on the mid 70's Professional crank became obsolete. With the same center measurements between the races, but longer length, maybe the "newer" spindle worked out to be the same as the older one. Not sure.
However, Bibliobob has a good point. I did just take another look at my Sutherland's 2nd edition and note they used something called "end factor", a bit confusing but it appears the Nuovo Record right hand end factor was 6. and the TA right hand end factor was 9.5. Which means the crank will, theoretically, sit 3.5 mm further inboard on the Campy spindle than the TA spindle. Guess I'll just have to try it and see if it works.
My main concern was the spindle flats, and now that Sutherland's 6th says closest is JIS, and SuperLJ mentions "French" tapers, I'm not sure I'm less confused than before. But, I'm easily confused. Thanks guys.
#15
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#16
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The reason I brought in my Stronglight experience is because SB and others say older TA and Stronglight are the same. But maybe they're not.
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72 Frejus (for sale), Holdsworth Record (for sale), special CNC & Gitane Interclub / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 French / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII f&f (for sale)/ 83 Trek 620 (for sale)/ 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook (for sale)/ 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 09 Giant TCX0 / 10 Vassago Fisticuff
#18
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Thx.
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Worth getting the right TA spindle if concerned. I just got a complete TA BB on ebay for my Moto Gran Jubilee.
#21
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You pre-date me Dbakl. But only by a coupla years. Yes, I should just get the proper spindle I guess. Kind of liked the idea of just using this Campy, since I have it already, but would like to keep the TA crank on the bike. TA cups are OK it seems.
So, how did you modernize the gas tank? Paint some cool flames? Pin striping?
So, how did you modernize the gas tank? Paint some cool flames? Pin striping?
#23
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There were two versions of the TA 344 spindle, they were 114.5 and 116.5mm long. More details here. From that you can see that they were the same except for a 2mm difference on the non-drive side, with no difference in chainline.
That diagram , while helpful, also makes it tricky to compare race to end measurements one would "normally" use. But the info is very helpful. Thank you.
#24
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