jowilson

If you remember, a few weeks ago, I asked what width of Velox rim tape I should get for my rim. It was decided that I use the 16mm wide tape, so I purchased it. I cleaned the rim bed to get rid of any dust or oils that'd provoke slipping. I installed it, put the tire on, and put it on the bike. The next day, out of fear of it slipping as it did a few months previous (an old strip of course) I deflated the tire and checked it. The rim tape had already slipped and was barely about to expose the spoke hole. Frustrated, I tore it out, and installed a different rim strip. It's a cheap plastic one from Performance Bicycle, and has held up better than the Velox. My only issue with it is that it's starting to dimple, and I've had bad experiences with extreme dimpling before. (11 flats in one week). So, I'm convinced that I need the widest stuff Velox sells-the 22mm. What are your thoughts on this matter? Should I purchase the 22mm width? Or maybe the 10mm width?

TIA,

Josh

rpenmanparker 

I have never heard of this level of problem with rim strips. Most folks just set 'em and forget 'em no matter whether cloth or plastic. I sure do. Tell us exactly what rims you have so we can be sure what width strip you need. BTW as long as the plastic strip doesn't crack over the spoke holes, the dimpling is rarely a problem. Oh, and you may want to try Velocity Velo Plugs instead of the rim strip.

FBinNY 

It's not that complicated, use whatever works for you.

Going wider may solve one problem, but may make mounting tires harder, so think about that if mounting is already hard. I use 2 turns of filament tape, and have never (in about 40 years) had a problem. The plastic strip will dimple slightly, but if it's a quality product it shouldn't blow through or sag enough to cause tube issues.

As for the slippage, I suspect it' because you used the wrong stuff to clean the rim. You need to degrease it completely, so strong detergents followed by complete rinsing, or a pure solvent which dries dry. Many cleaners leave an oily film, which is OK except for this purpose. Pure acetone (not nail polish remover) on a rag probably does the best job, but there are plenty of other choices. For those with similar issues clean means "squeaky clean" if you can rub a finger along the rim without it squeaking it's not clean.

rpenmanparker 

Rubbing alcohol is a decent and safe degreaser. Not as powerful as acetone but readily available and effective.

hueyhoolihan

if the wider tape doesn't interfere with the tire bead seating properly and it prevents nipple holes from peeping out, so much the better.

as regards rim tape, after about 25 years of "set it and forget it", i have recently had more than my share of troubles. today i fixed a slow leak caused by the overlap of the velox tape. really. there was a very, very small hole on the underside of the tube right at the tape overlap. no question in my mind what caused it. i do have to say that i suspect that the low PSI i run (excessive squirm) may have contributed to this one. and, unfortunately i know who to blame, again.

but i was happy that i could mount a NOS (at least 20 years old) 27x7/8" fold-able clincher on there by hand with no trouble. yeah! some sort of Schwinn approved criterium tire, i think.

this is the same rim/rim tape combo that made me cry a few times with other tires.

maybe i should buy a few more and throw them down in the wine cellar along with my Rieslings and Cabernets. they should be ready when i'm in my 80's. i'll be able to at least mount the tire if not the bike.

Retro Grouch 

In a perfect world your rim strip should completely cover your rim flange-to-flange without lapping up the sides of the flanges.

If your rims are so wide that 22 mm Velox will fit I'd say go for it. 16 mm works for most rims. It is a little narrower than ideal for some and snaps between the flanges and laps up the sides of many road rims. 10 mm only works for single wall rims in which the spokes reside in a narrow grove and, even then, I don't think that it works all that well.

jowilson

Thanks for the replies. I cleaned the rim with simple green first and then acetone. It was definitely squeaky clean. You can see the pictures of what the rim cross section and measurements look like in the link provided in post #1 . 16mm didn't work, it slipped and the edges of the strip curled over itself. Now I'm stuck between 10 and 22mm. The 10mm would fit snug in the rim well, but the 22mm will cover the entire bed. Keep in mind that in the diagram, inner rim width isn't accurate because it doesn't account for the rise in rim well.
Like this:

[_… _]
…\_/
It was worth a shot.

rpenmanparker 

Your hash tag doesn't send one to the old thread.

rydabent

One thing you might do is use baby powder in your tire and tube. That way when you inflate your tube it will not have a tendency to push your rim strip around. Not only do I put baby powder in the tire, when I inflate the tube, I pump it up just half way, the let out all the air, and then fully pump it up. That way the tube fully seats with no stress areas. I might add that after the rim strip is stuck on take your finger and press baby powder into the surface of the rim strip also.

As an aside to this, there have been threads about glueless patches not working right. I have posted that they work fine for me. Maybe it is the fact that I powder my tires so no stress is put on the tube and patches.

spdracr39

Automotive brake cleaner works great, is fast drying, and leaves no residue.

jowilson

I know. The hashtag was unintended. In post number 1 of this thread there is a link to the thread I am referring to.

jowilson

I do use baby powder in my tires. I'm going to buy a new size of rim tape. I think there's no sense on purchasing the same size and expecting a different outcome.

rpenmanparker 

Your rim is a hard one to fit. The narrow channel looks like it would be suitable for the 10 mm. Otherwise the 16. But if they don't work, then I would do what FB suggests and just use strapping tape. Else get the Velocity Velo Plugs and skip tape altogether.

FBinNY 

One thing I'm still not clear on (I can be slow sometimes)is whether the OP is covering holes in a double wall rim, or the heads of nipples in a single wall rim. The applications are very different, so knowing that, and EXACTLY what's bothering him would help give appropriate advice.

rpenmanparker 

Picture in the last thread shows a reinforced multi-walled rim. You know the upper channel, the floor and two reinforcement tubes, one on each side of the channel. Nipples are hidden inside the lower channel.

FBinNY 

So I gather his rim looks something like this one (Only the inside natters)



Rim tape isn't rocket science,and I'm having problems understanding why the OP is having such a tough time. Ideally he wants a tape that lays completely inside the lowest part of the center well. But of the holes come near to the edges, he needs to go a bit wider with something that comes up the sides slightly, but not far enough to reach to where the tire sits on top of the two side zones.

IMO- filament tape may be the way to go, with two turns, one favoring each side to give him the exact coverage he needs, with double thickness over the holes. Otherwise a urathane (or other ballistic material) band of the right width would another very good option.

Once in place, tapes don't move, unless you trap a tire bead against the edge and push them over. In fact, the issue may not be the tapes, but tight tires and his mounting technique.

Rule 37 -- if someone is having problems with something that millions aren't, you have to look for what's different.

hueyhoolihan

two wraps of a thin tape may work.

i've noticed that the rims i have been using lately (a modest V sectioned rim) have holes that are just about as wide as the narrow tape that is widely (no pun here) used. i have to be very careful not the expose the edge of a hole and careful with the tire irons when mounting a dismounting a tire. and while the distance the tape is forced into the spoke hole when the tire is inflated is miniscule, it seems to be just enough to make it almost impossible to cover the entire whole. i'm talking less than a millimeter off here and you're cooked.

i've found two wraps of johnson and johnson adhesive tape (narrow) can work a little better.

jowilson

Sorry this is so frustrating. It's frustrating for me too, as I've used 16mm velox in many other wheels and it's worked fine. I've included images from my wheel. The first shows the dimpling that is occurring with the current strip, the second is the bed of the rim. What happened with the previous Velox tape was that the edge of the tape rode up slightly on the reinforcement channels and, when inflated and ridden, curled over and eventually slipped into the center of the bed. It barely exposed the spoke hole, but I didn't want to take chances. I can try cleaning the rim again, in case that was the issue, and also buying another 16mm Velox strip.

rpenmanparker 

<p>
I assure you dimpling isn't a problem in the plastic strips as long as the dimple doesn't split. Ritchey yellow plastic bands never fail even though they dimple.</p>

FBinNY 

That blue band isn't of a sufficiently strong material. You might try the Kool Stop or Michelin bands which seem to work better. Or follow the lead of myself or others and switch to either filament or surgical tape.

The rpobel with the Velox tapes is that they're thick, so any tape wide enough to reliably cover the hole by coming up the side will leave a fat edge vulnerable to the tire pushing out of the way.

hueyhoolihan

ya, that blue stuff is too wide and too weak! maybe good for a rim designed for a 1 1/4" tire and 60psi, but inadequate for a typical road tire...

i think it's obvious from the pics that the holes are unnecessarily large. that's the hole (!) problem.

i don't see rhe reasoning behind such large holes. maybe it's a requirement forced upon rim makers by robotic wheeling building technology. the timing is about right, in that i don't recall this being a probem about 10 or 15 years ago. if indeed, that is when robotic wheel building commenced in earnest.

FBinNY 

Obviously it's hard without a reference, but I suspect those holes are actually smaller than what Mavic did when they introduced double wall rim clincher rims, and many that followed. It's just that they go to the edges of the stepped bottom, which leaves no margin to work with. Another example of someone not thinking.

Al1943

The pictures show the problem very well and now I can appreciate your frustrations. That rim was designed by some kind of masochist. I think I'd try a combination of filament tape and electrical tape. Filament tape for strength and electrical tape to help hold the filament tape in place and to keep the air pressure from splitting the filament tape. As you know, the spoke holes must be 100% covered and with some room for error.

jowilson

I bought the 16mm velox strip last night and installed it. I cleaned the rim REALLY well with a rough sponge and soapy water. I pressed the strip on centered and then pushed on it with a box end wrench to get the tape to stick as best I could. So far, so good. Will update if anything goes awry.

Thanks for all the help guys!
Josh

dbg

+1 on mounting technique as a possible contributor. An oversized or thick tube twisted the wrong way might grab the steep edge of the tape and roll it down the wall as the tube inflates. I agree with powder and low partial inflate to work the tube into a good position, deflate, re-inflate.