Okay....so why is BB30 such crap?
10-20-14, 06:34 AM
#277
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So I read this article, it sounds like BBright is only used by Cervelo and one other company. Makes me wonder if it's such a great design for weekend riders. I know I'd never buy another cervelo with it. Tho my cervelo has had other issues. I guess the two specialized bikes I've owned bought from same place as the cervelo have spoiled me in that they've had no issues and have performed perfectly right out of the box.
Complete guide to bottom brackets - BikeRadar
Complete guide to bottom brackets - BikeRadar
To clear a few things up, if your mechanic is removing bearings from cups, then you will likely have an issue.
Here a simple breakdown. There are really only 3 areas an integrated BB like you have can creak...only 2 with BB30 btw:
1. Outside of bushing to inside of frame shell
2. Outside of bearing to inside of bushing
3. Improper crank preload.
It really is that simple. Press in bearings into plastic cups can easily cause a problem. So you want to eliminate no.2 above by having the outside of the bearing bonded to the inside of the larger bushing. Yu want integrated bearing into cups as shown here which is the correct BB for your bike:
Rotorbike
Available in either steel or ceramic bearings. Save your money and get steel but if you want the best, then get ceramic...little difference.
If you note in the picture, the bearing is bonded to the larger OD bushing. That is what you want. This sub assembly won't creak.
So all you need your mechanic to do is buy a computer and following the following link:
https://bbright.net/BBrightTM-Press-Fit-Instructions.pdf
This shows the correct Loctite to install the correct BB. Be sure your mechanic knows what clean means. The BB shell has to be immaculate and then use a primer to get the Loctite to stick.
The crank should be installed immediately before the Loctite sets up to ensure alignment of bearing bores.
Now your mechanic has to figure out how to adjust the mechanical preload of your Rotor 3D+ crank. It isn't hard but maybe it escapes him.
People that struggle with these BB's miss one of more of the above steps.
HTH
Here a simple breakdown. There are really only 3 areas an integrated BB like you have can creak...only 2 with BB30 btw:
1. Outside of bushing to inside of frame shell
2. Outside of bearing to inside of bushing
3. Improper crank preload.
It really is that simple. Press in bearings into plastic cups can easily cause a problem. So you want to eliminate no.2 above by having the outside of the bearing bonded to the inside of the larger bushing. Yu want integrated bearing into cups as shown here which is the correct BB for your bike:
Rotorbike
Available in either steel or ceramic bearings. Save your money and get steel but if you want the best, then get ceramic...little difference.
If you note in the picture, the bearing is bonded to the larger OD bushing. That is what you want. This sub assembly won't creak.
So all you need your mechanic to do is buy a computer and following the following link:
https://bbright.net/BBrightTM-Press-Fit-Instructions.pdf
This shows the correct Loctite to install the correct BB. Be sure your mechanic knows what clean means. The BB shell has to be immaculate and then use a primer to get the Loctite to stick.
The crank should be installed immediately before the Loctite sets up to ensure alignment of bearing bores.
Now your mechanic has to figure out how to adjust the mechanical preload of your Rotor 3D+ crank. It isn't hard but maybe it escapes him.
People that struggle with these BB's miss one of more of the above steps.
HTH
10-20-14, 06:34 AM
#278
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BBright is fine for weekend riders. Your Cervelo is a Porsche and not a Kia. You need a Porsche mechanic.
BBright is simply stretched PF30 which is one of the most common BB's on race bikes.
Btw, I am a Specialized guy and a small related tidbit is Specialized abandoned their version of PF30 for 2015....only BB30 and threaded BB's in their product line. PF30 is more problematic when using separate BB30 bearings and plastic bushings. Why I spent some time going over this distinction. Integrated bearing/bushing solutions like the Rotor BB I linked are much less problematic...only need to silence the bushing OD to the BB shell ID.
Hope you get it sorted. A last note. If something is lost in the translation a bit between your mechanic and you and he did purchase the correct BB for you cranks with 'integrated' bearings i.e. bearing OD and larger outside bushing bonded together. Then have him uninstall the BB and start over. Start with alcohol to clean all surfaces of the BB and use the correct Loctite. If he is popping the bearing out of the bushings or used a separate bearing and bushing BB, discard it and get the one I linked from Rotor. Maybe find another mechanic that knows how to install BBright properly.
Good luck.
BBright is simply stretched PF30 which is one of the most common BB's on race bikes.
Btw, I am a Specialized guy and a small related tidbit is Specialized abandoned their version of PF30 for 2015....only BB30 and threaded BB's in their product line. PF30 is more problematic when using separate BB30 bearings and plastic bushings. Why I spent some time going over this distinction. Integrated bearing/bushing solutions like the Rotor BB I linked are much less problematic...only need to silence the bushing OD to the BB shell ID.
Hope you get it sorted. A last note. If something is lost in the translation a bit between your mechanic and you and he did purchase the correct BB for you cranks with 'integrated' bearings i.e. bearing OD and larger outside bushing bonded together. Then have him uninstall the BB and start over. Start with alcohol to clean all surfaces of the BB and use the correct Loctite. If he is popping the bearing out of the bushings or used a separate bearing and bushing BB, discard it and get the one I linked from Rotor. Maybe find another mechanic that knows how to install BBright properly.
Good luck.
Last edited by Campag4life; 10-20-14 at 06:51 AM.
10-20-14, 10:28 AM
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Group ride this past weekend. Guy on a Tarmac much like mine but louder. Rest of the group giving him good natured grief and going on about spesh and creaky bottom brackets. At the first water in out stop I ask the guy if his rear skewer was tight. He checks it and tightens it a bit and the junk bottom bracket stopped creaking. Go figure.
11-02-14, 12:19 PM
#280
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I might be getting the creak already on my bike that is less than three months old. Is that possible?I sense the front forks are creaking a bit and I can’t say for sure, but I believe it’s the BB 30 too.I have been putting some miles on it and it’s recently gotten much cooler here if that plays any role.
Last edited by Fastfwd01; 11-02-14 at 01:10 PM.
11-02-14, 12:55 PM
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I might be getting the creak already on my bike that is less than three months old. Is that possible?I sense the front forks are creaking a bit too and I can’t say for sure, but I believe it’s the BB 30 too.I have been putting some miles on it and it’s recently gotten much cooler here if that plays any role.
Just pulling your leg.
11-04-14, 08:15 PM
#282
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Yup...that is an effective BB for mounting an external bearing crank to a BB30...but Wheel mfg spacers work very well also.
Either solution will work fine. Ultegra cranks tend to work very well with BB30. A primary reason is the design of the crank with one piece spindle which has adjustable preload...lateral adjustment of non drive arm on the spindle spline...whereas the majority of BB30 cranks have a fixed spindle length and rely on wave washers for axial preload which require a bit more effort to set up properly...and a major source of issues with BB30...people don't use not enough care in set up.
Either solution will work fine. Ultegra cranks tend to work very well with BB30. A primary reason is the design of the crank with one piece spindle which has adjustable preload...lateral adjustment of non drive arm on the spindle spline...whereas the majority of BB30 cranks have a fixed spindle length and rely on wave washers for axial preload which require a bit more effort to set up properly...and a major source of issues with BB30...people don't use not enough care in set up.
if i wanted to swap the FSA crank out with a ultegra 6800, what all would i need to complete this?
03-08-16, 02:44 PM
#283
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I might be getting the creak already on my bike that is less than three months old. Is that possible?I sense the front forks are creaking a bit and I can’t say for sure, but I believe it’s the BB 30 too.I have been putting some miles on it and it’s recently gotten much cooler here if that plays any role.
On the other hand, my "heavy" Shimano BB-UN54 (threaded BB) has nearly 14,000 miles, 5 to 6 years of riding in ALL conditions (snow, rain, gravel, pavement, hot, cold, ...).
My follow up question: since I hear creaking/popping BB on other bikes all the time (the ones I pass when I'm riding*), are you damaging anything by letting the BB creak? I don't like it, my bikes should be quiet, only noise is the wind in your ears.
* I'm always passing other riders, 'cause I'm fast. /joke
03-08-16, 03:19 PM
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Yes, it's possible the BB is creaking already. I have a Felt Z85 with the BB30 and it is not 'robust' (I'll get crap for saying this on this thread). We rebuild the BB30 after 1200 miles and it started creaking again last fall. After some spring riding (wet and messy), I'm going to have it rebuilt again about 1800 miles after the first rebuilt. It appears I will need to have this BB rebuilt every other year. I will avoid this style BB on any new bikes I buy.
On the other hand, my "heavy" Shimano BB-UN54 (threaded BB) has nearly 14,000 miles, 5 to 6 years of riding in ALL conditions (snow, rain, gravel, pavement, hot, cold, ...).
My follow up question: since I hear creaking/popping BB on other bikes all the time (the ones I pass when I'm riding*), are you damaging anything by letting the BB creak? I don't like it, my bikes should be quiet, only noise is the wind in your ears.
* I'm always passing other riders, 'cause I'm fast. /joke
On the other hand, my "heavy" Shimano BB-UN54 (threaded BB) has nearly 14,000 miles, 5 to 6 years of riding in ALL conditions (snow, rain, gravel, pavement, hot, cold, ...).
My follow up question: since I hear creaking/popping BB on other bikes all the time (the ones I pass when I'm riding*), are you damaging anything by letting the BB creak? I don't like it, my bikes should be quiet, only noise is the wind in your ears.
* I'm always passing other riders, 'cause I'm fast. /joke
03-08-16, 03:24 PM
#285
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However, I wanted to post to this thread, the one that got me started on BF back in 2014. So ignore my quoting the banned user... and focus on my experience. Thanks!
03-08-16, 03:25 PM
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HA! Clearly I'm not good at see/reading the details. I thought this was from last fall. (this is a regular problem, I suck at reading, long story for another thread)
However, I wanted to post to this thread, the one that got me started on BF back in 2014. So ignore my quoting the banned user... and focus on my experience. Thanks!
However, I wanted to post to this thread, the one that got me started on BF back in 2014. So ignore my quoting the banned user... and focus on my experience. Thanks!
03-08-16, 03:30 PM
#287
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I just re-read and was about to edit, sorry, but you see my problem with reading. Nearly every post I have will show an edit, since I do my best proof-reading after clicking 'post'. And even then the post is likely going to have errors.
Nearly every post I have will show an edit, since I do my best proof-reading after clicking 'post'. And even then the post is likely going to have errors.
03-08-16, 06:31 PM
#288
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We might be related. I suffer a distinct disconnect between my brain and my two typing fingers.
03-08-16, 06:45 PM
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Yes, it's possible the BB is creaking already. I have a Felt Z85 with the BB30 and it is not 'robust' (I'll get crap for saying this on this thread). We rebuild the BB30 after 1200 miles and it started creaking again last fall. After some spring riding (wet and messy), I'm going to have it rebuilt again about 1800 miles after the first rebuilt. It appears I will need to have this BB rebuilt every other year. I will avoid this style BB on any new bikes I buy.
On the other hand, my "heavy" Shimano BB-UN54 (threaded BB) has nearly 14,000 miles, 5 to 6 years of riding in ALL conditions (snow, rain, gravel, pavement, hot, cold, ...).
My follow up question: since I hear creaking/popping BB on other bikes all the time (the ones I pass when I'm riding*), are you damaging anything by letting the BB creak? I don't like it, my bikes should be quiet, only noise is the wind in your ears.
* I'm always passing other riders, 'cause I'm fast. /joke
On the other hand, my "heavy" Shimano BB-UN54 (threaded BB) has nearly 14,000 miles, 5 to 6 years of riding in ALL conditions (snow, rain, gravel, pavement, hot, cold, ...).
My follow up question: since I hear creaking/popping BB on other bikes all the time (the ones I pass when I'm riding*), are you damaging anything by letting the BB creak? I don't like it, my bikes should be quiet, only noise is the wind in your ears.
* I'm always passing other riders, 'cause I'm fast. /joke
It it sucks to have BB30, but I hope that there won't be any problems in 1,000 miles.
03-10-16, 01:54 PM
#290
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I got word back from my mechanic that there's sand in the BB shell. It's a mess, but should be OK with a rebuild. I find it interesting that the Felt with BB30 is basically a "dry-bike", riding in wet conditions it more than it can handle. I'm interested to know if this is general experience with the BB30, dry conditions only?
I ask this with honestly, it's possible that my mechanic (as much as I like and trust him) may not be the best one to work on this bike. This shop doesn't see a lot of press-fit BB.
I ask this with honestly, it's possible that my mechanic (as much as I like and trust him) may not be the best one to work on this bike. This shop doesn't see a lot of press-fit BB.
03-10-16, 01:58 PM
#291
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Has any major manufacturer reverted to threaded?
03-10-16, 02:20 PM
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I know that Felt changed back to threaded BB on the Z85 - new models have the Shimano Hollowtech II. Additionally, not all press-fit BB are created equal. My understanding is that the PF30 is better than the BB30. The tolerances on the BB30 are very tight since the bearings are pressed directly into the frame and this causes issues. IMO the BB30 is not the correct component for entry-level to mid-level bikes. For these bikes, you'll never notice the additional stiffness or the weight savings the BB30 offers.
03-10-16, 02:47 PM
#293
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03-10-16, 03:47 PM
#294
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I got word back from my mechanic that there's sand in the BB shell. It's a mess, but should be OK with a rebuild. I find it interesting that the Felt with BB30 is basically a "dry-bike", riding in wet conditions it more than it can handle. I'm interested to know if this is general experience with the BB30, dry conditions only?
I ask this with honestly, it's possible that my mechanic (as much as I like and trust him) may not be the best one to work on this bike. This shop doesn't see a lot of press-fit BB.
I ask this with honestly, it's possible that my mechanic (as much as I like and trust him) may not be the best one to work on this bike. This shop doesn't see a lot of press-fit BB.
03-10-16, 04:02 PM
#295
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03-11-16, 07:29 AM
#296
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The sand didn't get in through the bearings or their interface with the BB shell. It got in through a hole in the bottom of the shell or from above down the seat tube. Maybe even by running down inside the chainstays. What harm the sand could do to sealed bearings I can't imagine. The Felt may let sand and water in, but that shouldn't make any difference.
The BB was creaking/cracking and that's why it's at the shop and found the shell full of sand. You're correct, they might not be related. On the other hand, the BB30 was creaking and cracking after less than two years and 1800 miles. That seems like a short life. I understand you can ride with a BB30 creaking/cracking and not damage anything but your ears. That's not how I roll. So is the BB30 for dry rides only? Or do I need to go to a shop that has more experience with BB30 - would they be able to get a longer life out of a rebuild?
03-11-16, 08:41 AM
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I can see your point, but still don't see how it all gets in there. The truth is that I haven't looked for sand in the BB shell of the threaded BB bikes.
The BB was creaking/cracking and that's why it's at the shop and found the shell full of sand. You're correct, they might not be related. On the other hand, the BB30 was creaking and cracking after less than two years and 1800 miles. That seems like a short life. I understand you can ride with a BB30 creaking/cracking and not damage anything but your ears. That's not how I roll. So is the BB30 for dry rides only? Or do I need to go to a shop that has more experience with BB30 - would they be able to get a longer life out of a rebuild?
The BB was creaking/cracking and that's why it's at the shop and found the shell full of sand. You're correct, they might not be related. On the other hand, the BB30 was creaking and cracking after less than two years and 1800 miles. That seems like a short life. I understand you can ride with a BB30 creaking/cracking and not damage anything but your ears. That's not how I roll. So is the BB30 for dry rides only? Or do I need to go to a shop that has more experience with BB30 - would they be able to get a longer life out of a rebuild?
But it needs to be said, that even without creaking due to the cartridges moving in the shell, the bearings don't last as long in BB30 as in threaded outboard cups. 1,800 miles doesn't sound so bad to me if it is the internals of the cartridges that have gone bad. It is expected. It is the creaking due to the whole cartridge rubbing that ought to be able to be permanently prevented.
Oh, and before you do anything else, you should open up the cartridges (in place) and see if they need to be regreased. Your problem could be as simple as that.
03-11-16, 08:48 AM
#298
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You've read the "instructions" here for rebuilding a BB30 setup, the procedure using Loctite 609 preferably with primer/accelerator on a well cleaned surface. Convey that is what you want to your shop. If they balk, go elsewhere. Or if you think they will nod and then not do it, go elsewhere.
But it needs to be said, that even without creaking due to the cartridges moving in the shell, the bearings don't last as long in BB30 as in threaded outboard cups. 1,800 miles doesn't sound so bad to me if it is the internals of the cartridges that have gone bad. It is expected. It is the creaking due to the whole cartridge rubbing that ought to be able to be permanently prevented.
Oh, and before you do anything else, you should open up the cartridges (in place) and see if they need to be regreased. Your problem could be as simple as that.
But it needs to be said, that even without creaking due to the cartridges moving in the shell, the bearings don't last as long in BB30 as in threaded outboard cups. 1,800 miles doesn't sound so bad to me if it is the internals of the cartridges that have gone bad. It is expected. It is the creaking due to the whole cartridge rubbing that ought to be able to be permanently prevented.
Oh, and before you do anything else, you should open up the cartridges (in place) and see if they need to be regreased. Your problem could be as simple as that.
03-16-16, 03:26 PM
#299
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I got the Z85 back on Saturday and have been out a couple times with it. It is solid after the rebuild, no creaking/cracking.
This is meant to be funny, I'm sure somebody with get upset... sorrynotsorry
(Posted by Drunkencyclist on Facebook).
This is meant to be funny, I'm sure somebody with get upset... sorrynotsorry
(Posted by Drunkencyclist on Facebook).
