woahdae

I just got in to longish-distance riding last summer, and considering all the positive reviews, I put down on a Brooks B17. I was in a saddle-trying phase, and out of the box I thought it was the most comfortable I'd tried. Rode it a couple hundred commuter/training miles, then took it on a 2-day 200 mile ride (the Seattle to Portland).

On the first day, no pressure on the perineum (priority #1!), and some mild discomfort sometimes, but nothing a little shift in position doesn't help. BUT, oooh man, when I got back on my bike that second day, it felt like my sit-bones were made of marbles! Extremely painful.

My girlfriend, on a $35 women's saddle from the LBS (I *think* a Specialized Riva) had a little soreness, but really no issues. Yeah, I got some flack for that given that I shopped around and dropped $160 on a fancy saddle and she walked in & out of the LBS, one-and-done. "I'll show her next season!" I thought.

Well, I've now put a little over 2000 miles on the saddle, mostly commuter miles, and it feels great over those distances. Not an ounce of discomfort or pressure.

However, I just did a 50 mile ride yesterday, the first of the season, and I've got the old "marbles" feeling this morning on my sit bones... SO:

I was starting to notice some perinium pressure, so for this ride I tightened the saddle 1/4 turn, and noticed it does feel a bit stiffer, but seems to fit better too. Should I undo this and get a better fit some other way? Back off the tension and tilt the nose down a bit? (it's tilted up a fair amount from when I would slide off it otherwise when breaking it in)

Or, did I do too much too fast? I ride my bike every day, rain or shine, about 5-20 miles depending on chores (usually more like 5)... I figured I'd have the butt trained by now :/

Fellow Brooks riders, what do YOUR butts feel like at the beginning of the season?

Machka 

1. You might try tipping the nose of the saddle up a bit more, or if it is really high, then perhaps bring it down a little bit. It can take a few rides to get the tilt just right. You might also try angling it off to the left or right just slightly. And also check your fit on the bicycle in general.

You should not need to touch the tensioning bolt at all within the first, say, 10,000 km.

2. If you've been off the bicycle, or only riding short distances, for several months, yes, you will experience similar discomfort as you did when you first started with the Brooks ... or any saddle for that matter ... when you try a longer distance The way to solve this problem is to keep riding decent distances year round. Next winter, you might try to do a 50 mile ride once a month or every 3 weeks or so.

3. Your Brooks is broken in when the first sign of sitbone divots appear.

4. Core work also helps to improve saddle comfort.

woahdae

OK! Cool, I backed off the saddle tension to where it was.

Thanks for the feedback on needing to ride more. If it's just more saddle time that's fine, just so long as it's not like this all season!

I do have the first signs of sitbone divots, I was wondering about that.

Out of curiosity, what is the mechanism about core work & saddle comfort? Is there something/somewhere I can read about it?

palu

What model do you have? Some saddles have much thicker/stiffer leather and take longer to break in.

Machka 

A strong core allows you to ride with good posture, and especially to hold that posture for extended periods of time.

It also helps you distribute your weight between feet and butt when you ride ... the saddle should not carry your full weight, your feet should share the load. And that distribution allows you to sit lightly in the saddle.

And it can help with bicycle control when you stand up periodically ... especially if you're standing with a fully-loaded touring bicycle.

woahdae

THANK YOU for the advice! Also, your website is a great resource

djb

thats good that you didnt tighten it much, and I tend to agree that if you treat it properly (not letting it get completely soaked and riding on it afterwards, putting oils on it etc), you shouldnt have to touch the bolt for a long time, that has been my experience.

for the tilting aspect, I used to have mine tilted up a bit, but as my handlebars are a bit below saddle height, I found having the seat level is better for "priority # 1 " . Now, everyone is diff, but often the "tilted up" thing works for folks who have their bars higher than their seat, which is the case with Machkas bike. So you really do have to listen to your own body and try slight position changes and see how it feels--its usually pretty immediate for feeling improvements with perineum stuff, especially if you ride a bit, then adjust, and ride right away.

and yes, the first rides are always a bit sore on the sitbones. This is one of the reasons I ride on an indoor trainer during the winter, it helps a lot with the keester and the legs when I can start riding outside again--which is probably not for a month at least or more from now.

ThermionicScott 

+billions. If you take a season or more off from the bike, it's your butt that needs to be broken in again, regardless of the saddle. If it was comfortable at the end of last season, don't readjust it, just ride.

B. Carfree

While I'm about as far from a Brooks fan as possible (dumped mine four decades ago), your problem is likely not the saddle. It sounds like you just don't yet have the conditioning to keep your weight off the saddle, which is going to be necessary if you are going to ride long distances. The stronger you get, the more of your body weight will be on the pedals and the less will be at the other points of contact (hands, bum). Keep riding, do what you can to get stronger, get out of the saddle often and don't treat the saddle like a chair. Also, consider having someone knowledgeable (good luck identifying such a person) help you with your fit and form. Bear in mind that your fit will change as you get stronger.

Rowan

Where is your handlebar height in relation to the saddle? Well below? Just below? Level? Above?

The logic I use is that when you put a Brooks B17 on as an unbroken-in saddle, you will be at a certain height, and the uptilt of the saddle will be helpful in preventing you sliding forward. But as the butt divots appear in the saddle, two things can happen:

1. Your saddle height in relation to the pedals decreases, so you might want to lift the saddle very slightly from its unbroken-in position.

2. The formation of divots effectively mean you are dropping your perineum on to the front of the saddle, hence the rub you might be sustaining there. Therefore, if you have the saddle tilted up a fair bit, you might consider dropping the nose down.

The Brooks is a dynamic saddle (an odd term to use for such an old design). It changes shape over time, and therefore you need to be aware of that an make adjustments as needed (which should, after the initial break-in period be every couple of years -- about the time most other non-Brooks users are replacing their plastic saddles).

The tension bolt is the last thing you might need to touch, and you will get a clue to that from an increased flare in the sides, and a loose feeling of the mechanism at that end of the saddle.

My oldest B17 appears to the untrained eye to be well beyond redemption as far as the shape and depth of the divots is concerned, but I can still get on the Fuji Touring to which it is fitting without bike shorts, and ride comfortably for a day.

woahdae

My handlebar is level with the "Brooks" logo, so just below the sitbone area, but *just*.

I was thinking the same thing about the divots and perineum, but (incorrectly, by consensus) adjusted the saddle bolt to get out of the ruts, so to speak. It might have accomplished its goal in less perenium pressure (that was my impression, but it's all so subjective... certainly not a double-blind!). But the seat feels harder too.

I'm excited to try it again with the nose down a bit, and the bolt adjusted back, to see if I can have my cake and eat it too. I do use the drops often, the reach to the hoods is decent, and the most comfortable position is behind the ramps, so it's been tough to find a one-angle-fits-all.

Lower saddle nose seems like it would be more flexible, assuming I don't slide off my saddle.

djb

Rowan, this certainly describes it, I've noticed this and haven't seen others mention this before. Its certainly an aspect of them that one should be aware of, or at least think of when paying attention to riding comfort--seat height and all that.

To be honest, I never really thought about this until a few years ago I finally noticed that my seat needed to go up a smidge, and it was because of the slight lowering of my bum due to the leather settling a bit over time.

This could easily, or even rightfully be seen as another downside to a leather bike seat, but I still am one who finds them comfortable in the big scheme of things that it outweighs the few things you have to be careful of.

djb

my bars are about an inch at the most below saddle height, and level makes it better for being in the drops. I have shallow drop bars which probably helps, but I certainly recall that leveling the seat made it more comfortable all around, and if it is level, you wont feel you are sliding off the saddle--especially if your bike is set up properly for you--which gets back to the good comments of proper bike set up allowing for even pressure of seat/bars/feet---which again connects up to the fact that when you start riding at the start of the season, we always ride more "heavy" in the saddle, just because we arent as fit yet, so more weight on our keesters.

fietsbob

Ask your back side.. I won't guess.. I Still have my Brooks Pro, I bought in the 70's.. its on my Touring Bike,

HIPS upright , bend with your Spine.
dont bend at your femur-socket back straight.

MassiveD

It should take about 2 miles for the sit bone divots to show up. You ride just long enough to figure out where they are. You press them in with a golf ball. You just start the process of upsetting the leather from convex, no more.

woahdae

This definitely feels right on the Brooks, in terms of fit. I found myself sitting as you described, a flat pelvis and curved spine. I've seen this advice elsewhere, too, unrelated to Brooks saddles. Something about shock absorption.

However, it really doesn't feel right relative to my other sports postures. With my hips tilted forward, I feel more supported by my core, and more connected to my legs. Take weight lifting, rowing/erging, pretty much any sport, and they will tell you to have a "strong core," meaning a subtly curved spine supported by correct breathing (sometimes called "back breathing") to make a sort of natural support belt around your pelvis. On a bike, this creates a "spilling forward" posture that personally feels great. It's my go-to power posture, but I have learned to suppress it on the Brooks.

Here is a Bike Forums thread discussing more of the nuances on hip rotation: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...-rotation.html

I don't mean to mini-hijack this thread, but I both agree that the current saddle position is best with a flat pelvis, but currently disagree that it should be that way necessarily. We'll see what I can do by playing with the tilt.

fietsbob

the noseless saddles are another Option .. thought the pressure on the boy parts was the issue?

I havent had that problem..

Tourist in MSN

Do you use drop bars and if so, do you use the drops much? If you lean forward like that a lot, you might find a narrower saddle is better for you.

I find that a B17 is too wide for me, I prefer a Conquest (essentially a Brooks Pro with springs). I use drop bars and I am using the drops maybe a quarter of the time, tops of the bars or the hoods the rest of the time. But if I used flat bars and sat more upright, then a B17 would fit me fine. But a B17 when I use the drops is not a good fit at all. I have four Conquests on different bikes that I regularly ride.

I have a B17 and have used it on a hybrid I have on my trainer, so I know when it works and when it does not work. On the trainer, I sit more upright.

woahdae

Yeah, sounds like we have a similar setup. I use the drops quite a bit, probably also a quarter of the time.

The conquest looks cool! Man, Brooks has SO MANY SADDLES. We need a forum just for their product lines.

Tourist in MSN

The Conquest was discontinued, my last two I got off ebay. But a few months ago it apparently went back into production, it is on the Brooks website again. But because it was not made for several years, it might be hard to find if you are interested.