hause

There is no bike shops like that near me, idk even know of any like that on the east coast.

rpenmanparker 

Surely you don't think you would get the same price for 20 frames that BD gets for a 1,000!

CliffordK

BD only has 1 unbuilt Titanium frame in stock. Are you sure they are buying them 1000 at a time? Do they buy year-end closeouts? They probably have quite a total volume... including a lot of Motobecane bikes, but I doubt their bare titanium frames are that high. And most of the people I see jumping on Forums asking about BD bikes are asking about $500 bikes and not $2000 bikes.

I'm seeing other Titanium Cross frames on E-Bay starting around $1000... But, my guess is there is a hefty markup on those too.

Nova sells Titanium Tube kits for about $370 (Plus BB shells, dropouts, and etc), but no doubt there is a markup on those too.

One really needs to contact the supplier, convince them that one will make the order, and get a "real" price before negotiating anything.

But it is an expensive gamble for an individual, and there are a lot of options to work out for a group purchase.

Frame, Fork, Size, Style, etc.

dr_lha

A couple of times in this thread you've talked about Motobecane as if it were a real bike company. Odd.

rpenmanparker 

Yes, but what about all the built bikes. They are part of the total. In fact, BD may build them.

CliffordK

There is, in fact, a Motobecane USA (as well as a French Motobecane).

I'm not sure about international trademark laws.... Probably the rights to use the name were sold in the USA, then divided up.

Odd that Kinesis manufactures both the Dawes and Motobecane bikes on BD... Except.. perhaps the titanium ones????

hause

I heard back from a Rikulau US distributor today regarding pricing on one of their ORA framed cyclocross bikes, its renolds 931 w/ 105, I was quoted $5000.00... not what I was expecting
Cyclocross Bike?Reynolds931?Illusion

hause

I requested pricing form ORA on a few different frames, order size 20 units on each one, I'll let you guys know if I hear back.

RedVVing19

If BD had their titanium road frame with S&S Couplers I would order immediately

CliffordK

Nice bike, but whew, that is expensive

Unfortunately S&S are pretty restrictive for use by small shops and home builders.

I did snag a steel S&S frame... with suitcase, but unfortunately the BB appears stripped... So another project, either repairing the BB, going threadless, or salvaging parts. I'm still trying to decide what to do with that one.

There is a Litespeed frame with S&S Couplers on E-Bay now. Apparently an Engima titanium frame recently sold.

Litespeed Natchez s s Couplers Travel Road Bike Frame 700c 57cm Large Titanium | eBay
Titanium Carbon Fiber Frame Set with s s Couplers 57cm by Enigma | eBay

RedVVing19

I am a 52cm size, really the only reasonably prized production titanium travel that I am aware of is the Ritchey frame

rpenmanparker 

That is a good choice, but I really don't like the carbon stays. I had the steel version and loved it.

CliffordK

Do you need round tubes for the S&S Couplers?
That could become a major limitation now, and heading into the future as there are more shaped tubes being used. Perhaps the downtubes hit a transition point between vertical and horizontal shaping where the couplers can be installed.

There are a few companies who will retrofit S&S couplers into a frame. Perhaps talk to a few small builders.

It looks like ticycles in Portland will install the S&S Couplers for about $1000.
https://ticycles.com/TCF/pricelist-sands.pdf

Anyway, you could hunt for a small cheap titanium frame with round tubes, and get the couplers retrofitted.

BoSoxYacht

If I were looking for a Ti frame at a reasonable price, I'd look at Habanero. Custom Ti at a reasonable price.

rms13

The french motobecane went out of business 35 years ago, the trademark expired and bikes direct started using the name. Motobecane USA, Mercier, Dawes, Windsor are all names owned by bikesdirect.

rpenmanparker 

I think there are either shaped couplers for shaped tubes OR oversize round couplers in which the extra space is filled in when shaped tubes are used. S&S are very good to work with even though they don't sell to the retail public. They will be happy to answer your questions and send you to an appropriate builder fro what you need.

dr_lha

Exactly. This is my point about Motobecane not being a real bike company. It's just a sticker that BD gets it's manufacturers to put on their stock frames. Another part of BD's shady practices really, selling fake bike brands and setting up websites for them pretending they're a real company, but when you dig into the website, they are surprisingly light on facts about who they are.

rpenmanparker 

You are being too hard on BD. It is a time-honored practice for certain bicycle brands to be nothing more than marketing outlets for bikes that are designed and built by a totally different organization. The name is just that, only a name. Take Centurion for example. That was just a marketing company that sold bikes built by someone else. Diamondback too back in the day if I am not mistaken.

Yes, there used to be a real company called Motobecane, and a naïf could be confused or misled, but it doesn't seem like a serious transgression to me. Just think of Motobecane as a line of bikes that BD sells. Similarly Competitive Cyclist owns the Merlin label now and has "Merlin" bikes built for them by a unrelated manufacturing company. It is a common practice and not so awful.

dr_lha

I agree that it's not that serious, and it has been common in the industry to rebadge generic frames and sell them as a brand in the past.

BD just does this on a grand scale though, with, what, 5 fake brands? Off the top of my head Dawes USA, Motobecane USA, Windsor, Gravity, Mercier. Each with it's own website, not mentioning their affiliation with Bikesdirect in any way. Also those websites (which mostly are out of date) have fake inflated MSRPs on them, which would appear exist only to back up BD's claim of drastic "savings" on the bikes they sell. Sorry, but it's shady IMHO.

Bah Humbug

There are a ton of captive brands in other arenas as well - tons in the automotive world, each grocery store chain has its own in-house brand, Starbucks has Tazo for tea, so on and so forth.

dr_lha

Right, go to the Tazo website and at the bottom you will see that it says "© 2015 Starbucks Corporation."

As I said I'm not saying it's not common practice, I just think the way that BD are going about it is shady.

rms13

I agree BD's marketing is misleading and I understand why they started out the way they did but BD is an established brand now and they would be better off using their own name on all the bikes (although their name is stupid). But I think of them as similar to Planet X (who have a much cooler name). What BD should really do is sell Bikesdirect brand bikes but have all unbranded frames. I think their customer base doesn't care about the name on the frame and there is a whole other customer base that doesn't want to ride one because of stigma that would ride an unbranded bike

Bah Humbug

How is it different?

dr_lha

Because, as I said in my earlier posts, they don't mention their affiliation with BD on these websites. Tazo does mention who owns it. That and the fake MSRPs I mentioned earlier. *IMHO* it's a bit of a shady business practice to do this.

Bah Humbug

Most people going to the grocery story and picking up a box of tea won't know. They won't know that Best Buy makes (I think) Sylvania TVs, or that Target makes the Archer Farms food line. I think you're assuming people are much better-informed than they really are.