rpenmanparker 

I don't know about the other "brands", but there is no purchase function on the Motobecane website that I can find. So the list prices are really moot anyway. The only place you can buy them is from BD, and there you get the discounted price automatically. What's so shady about that?

dr_lha

I'm not a huge fan of the fake discount method of marketing. I.e. putting up a price, that a bike is *never* sold at, and then declaring a massive discount when it's sold for it's actual value.

I personally find this shady. If you don't, whoop-ti-do, that doesn't affect my feelings.

rms13

Isn't this how Performance operates too? Every bike they sale is at "sale" price. Just look at the website, they list msrp and sale/actual price. Then sometimes they have a legitimate sale on top of that (but most sales are really giving you points). Their sale vs msrp isn't as astromically different as BD but still

dr_lha

Yep. Nashbar too. Kohl's is a good example of a brick-and-mortar store that operates this way too.

rpenmanparker 

And Joseph A. Bank. Actually it is very common. In the case of BD, I think they more saying compare their bike to one costing the higher price, not that their bike ever actually carried that list price.

dr_lha

Right, the "compare at" is better IMHO, even though it is still somewhat deceptive, as the bikes they're comparing to are often not comparable in reality. However, they do quote MSRPs on the websites for their "brands", as I mentioned earlier, even those those websites are not up to date.

rms13

In BD's defense they do actually say "compare to" on all there bikes

2016 Motobecane
Le Champion DA11 TEAM Ti
SALE $2999.95(Compare to $7600 LiteSpeed)



https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/road_bikes/lechamp_ti_team_da11_xiii.htm

The biggest problem with BD is their website looks like it's from the turn of the millennium.

dr_lha

You're missing my point from earlier. BD have "compare to", but Motobecane's (which as we all know is BD) website has MSRP that are totally made up:

https://www.motobecane.com/rdti/tmti.html

$6995 MSRP for their Dura Ace Le Champion from a few years ago.

The fact that these websites have languished without updates for a few years is perhaps a sign that BD realizes this is a bad idea, or are just lazy.

hause

To get the thread back on track.

I got some pricing back from ORA. I'm waiting to hear back from them regarding geometry specs, weight, variations in size when ordering, custom sizing, and ss couplers.

Reynolds 931 road frame 14-RA902 priced at $650 ea, 20 min

Ti cyclo cross 15-CX301 priced at $796 ea, 20 min

Frame_Products_Ora Engineering Co., Ltd.

Considering freight is not included these prices don't seem all that great unless custom sizing and SS coupler costs are well below market. It was a neat idea to kick around anyway.

rms13

What's the price if you buy one?

rms13

I think it's been mentioned, but you can get a Habanero Ti frame for $995 plus $40 shipping. You can get a Javelin Bocca for $599 plus $59 shipping on eBay. If you want a super high end steel you can get Wraith handmade in USA for $1350 shipped. If you don't need latest and greatest steel, you can get Soma Smoothie for about $400 shipped as I did. I don't understand going through all this trouble for some generic, mass production Taiwanese frames

hause

Yes, good job that appears to be the conclusion. How many bike companies do you think use "generic mass production frames"? How else will you get prices down. Couple that with companies that build a variety of Ti, 953,931 etc. and also offer custom sizing and ss couples? It was my hope that ordering from the manufacture would yield a savings, appears I was incorrect. Min. order number is 20

I'll look at those frames you posted, sound like very reasonable prices.

Bah Humbug

Macy's and JCP as well. I can't recall ever paying the marked price at either of them.

CliffordK

That was the point of this whole thread. Ordering factory direct there was a 20 frame minimum. Bikes Direct uses/sells the frames but is short on inventory.

The prices aren't too unexpected. Is that without forks? Hmmm... Anyway, if you were running a business... buying your frames for $800 and selling for $1000, you could turn a bit of a profit, but once you add in two shipping legs and forks, the profit margin decreases significantly.

I've seen the "new" Javelin frames on E-Bay for a while and they always seemed lower than I might expect.

Hmm, looking at the website, it is never clear who makes what where, but they may be designing and having their frames custom built.

rpenmanparker 

Yes, OP, I think you forgot about the forks. I would bet the frames come without.

hause

In my mind that's a given, but I should have probably reminded everyone else that is the case. No forks at price quoted

hause

The prices aren't unexpected, but there to high to warrant a purchase by me. What's the point of the thread? OK, I'll take the bait. To get a nice, possibly custom sized Ti frame with rear braze ons, endurance/light touring geometry, fattie friendly, disc and ss couplers at a good price, say sub $1500 with fork and shipping. From what I've found ORA seemed like a company that had the possibility of providing that. Guess I'll have to wait for the phantom cross ti w/105s to get back in stock and live w/o the couplers. I want a lighter, faster version of my disc trucker. Javelin doesn't meet my needs.

ZippyThePinhead

Or, watch on Craigslist & eBay. You can set up auto-searches on both venues, and either get the results in an RSS feed, or via email. If you're patient and careful, you can find decent deals.

CliffordK

Getting the S&S Couplers will likely break the bank, unless a good used frame turns up.

Nothing seems unreasonable with what you want.

• Titanium
• Cyclocross/Touring
• Disc Bakes
• Rack Mounts
• S&S Couplers (or other quality breakdown).

Unfortunately, that group of features seems uncommon on the used market, and new frames are being sold for a pretty penny. Modding the frames for S&S is also quite expensive.

Maybe when I build up my next Litespeed, I should tear down the old one and play around with adding discs, rack mounts, and larger tires.

Welding Titanium just scares me, but perhaps I just need to take the plunge.

hause

Digging into a project like that would take some balls, but would be pretty awesome if you pulled it off.

hause

I'm really digging the Soma smoothie frames, did you build yours frame up? Doulble cross looks nice as well.

CliffordK

My current Litespeed was built up on a budget.



I spent less on the entire build than I could buy bare Titanium tubing and misc parts from Nova Cycles. I haven't gotten into flipping bikes, but I probably could have sold the frame for double what I paid for it.... but I still consider the value to be the purchase price, not a potential (unrealized) E-Bay value.

Yes... if you look closely enough, that is actually a 26" MTB

So, while welding Titanium does intimidate me a bit... It is not like I would be hacking up a $10K bike.

hause

Beautiful build, I'm sure it feels that much better knowing you have positive equity in it. I would be hesitant to hack it up as well, measure twice...

rms13

Yeah, built mine a mix of new parts and a few I had on hand.

5800 105 group
Nashbar full carbon fork
Vuelta Corsa Lite wheels
Mich Pro 4 tires
Zipp bars
Ritchey carbon seat post
Fizik saddle (had old Selle for a while)
5800 carbon pedals

rides like a dream