martslc

I have an old set of shimano 105's on my bike as shown but I'm wondering if I can increase the braking power somehow?

dtrain

Yes - those are an older ratio (compared to the STIs). You could try new pads (like Kool Stop). But I'd throw 5800 or 6800 calipers on there.

martslc

Do you know if the 5800's are as as good and the 6800's? I've got the 6700 groupo other then the brakes.

martslc

I'm 6'3.5", 200lbs so it's a good force at 40mpg going down rocky mountain descents. (No problem stopping on the ascents).

dtrain

6700's would be fine if you can find 'em cheap enough on ebay (etc.). I know that 5800 and 6800 calipers from the UK are easy to find, very reasonably priced, and are a slightly improved design. I have one full 5800 bike, and one with a 5700 group + 5800 calipers. I'm happy with both. I can't speak to the performance gap if you went with the 6800s.

Slash5

I've been riding a bike that I just refurbed and it has the very poor 80's entry level Dia-Compe side pulls on it, flexy as heck. I put the gray KoolStop continental pads on it cause that's what I had handy. I'm amazed at the braking, as good as anything I've ridden. I'd try new KoolStop pads.

FeltF2Tarmac

I bought some 5800's and put them on my Tarmac. They work as good as the 6800's on my Felt. I use the Kool Stop Salmon pads in place of Shimano. I feel the brakes are just a little better with them. I paid about $60 for mine through Ribble, 6800's were like $75 + shipping.

cyccommute 

Yes but you don't need new pads to do it. It's about how you use the brakes not what brakes you have.

Braking power or, more correctly, rate of deceleration is based on how how much deceleration you can get out of the bike before the bike throws you over the handlebars. If you are seated in a "normal" position on level ground and you apply the brakes, the maximum rate of deceleration you can attain is just a bit over 0.5g or half the acceleration due to gravity or 5m/s^2 (16 ft/s^2 for the metrically challenged). Over this rate of deceleration on you are going to be converting from stopping to falling as you go over the bars.

But this only holds for seated in the "normal" position. If you move the center of gravity of the bicycle/rider system rearward and downward, you increase that rate of deceleration to 0.9g or 9m/s^2 before the rider takes a trip over the bars. And the movement rearward and downward are minimal. 2" down and 4" back will achieve this kind of increase in deceleration. Basically squatting back on the saddle and pushing back so that your arms are straight is all you need.

Also, if you are going downhill, the amount of deceleration you can get decreases since your center of gravity is further forward when compared to on level ground. You can approximate this by moving forward towards the handlebars during braking on level ground and seeing what that does to the braking. That's also the way to do spectacular skids, although I wouldn't do that with road tires. They just don't have much rubber on them and you'll wear through it in a little as one skid.

Braking really is more about technique than about equipment. Learn the technique and you'll find that just about any equipment is adequate to the job.

Moe Zhoost

I get at least 100 miles per gallon (of beer of course)

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have some 105s on one of my bikes and have not noticed that they are any worse than any other caliper. KoolStop salmons are a nice upgrade.

HillRider

In absolute terms you are correct. Ultimate braking ability is limited by either the tendency of the bike to rotate around the front contact patch or by the tires skidding at the limit of adhesion. Almost any caliper, V-brake, canti or disc can do that if you squeeze hard enough.

However, I believe when many posters here say they want "more braking power", what they really are asking, is "how can I get the bike to slow down adequately without so much hand pressure on the brake lever"? So while nearly any brake can cause an endo or skid the tires, some require so much hand force they effectively aren't comfortably useable by the rider, particularly on long hills where constant pressure is needed to keep the bike's speed in check. So, better pads that have a higher coefficient of friction do offer "more braking power" by that definition.

martslc

Yes I do know it's about techniques a as anything. Thanks for the tip on Kool Stop Salmon pads.

PS. There seems to be many different conditions Kool Stop Salmon pads, what is recommended generally for dry with some riding over draining water from snow etc.? https://www.koolstop.com/english/rim_pads.html

gsa103

Actually, in the OPs case equipment IS an issue. He's using 5700 levers with the older 5600 calipers, and the cable pulls don't match. It's entirely possible the OP can't generate adequate force or sufficient pull before the lever hits the bars.

The correct solution is to just buy the newer style 5700 or 5800 brakes, which will also come with better pads. I had the previous 5500 brakes and even with KoolStop pads, they're were still junk compared to the newer stuff.

HillRider

The OP's 5700 levers with 5600 brakes would result in a harder lever pull (the levers pull more cable than the calipers require) but lack of travel would certainly not be a problem unless he has the pads set way too far from the rim at rest.

Your problems with the 5500 calipers puzzle me. I have Ultegra 6400 series brakes (their contemporaries and nearly identical) on two bikes using compatible pull levers and Kool Stop Salmon pads. The braking is just fine wet or dry and, believe me, I ride enough hills to need, and recognize, good braking.

gsa103

It's possible its just the lever shape. The braking from the older x500/x600 style hoods seems vastly inferior to the newer x700/x800. I've never ridden any of the older style bikes where I felt the braking was the same league as the newer stuff.

martslc

What would be the right Kool stop pad for northern Utah weather? I don't ride a ton in wet weather, there is some on the road from time to time but big mountain slops are the main thing.

Also it seems the 6800 brakes are cheaper then 6700 will they be ok with 6700 levers?
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Ultegr...o+6800+ultegra



- Thanks!

dtrain

^ yes. No problem running 6800 calipers with 6700 levers. Should be a nice upgrade (but double-check a couple UK sites for pricing as well). And while Kool Stops would help even a bit more...I've found that the stock Shimano pads are quite a bit better than they used to be.

FastJake

Correct. With this cable pull mismatch the OP might have to pull a little harder on the brake lever to get the same braking force. If this is a problem for the OP after ensuring the cables/housing are routed well and are in good condition, the brakes are properly adjusted, and the pads are good (Kool Stop) then getting the "correct" brakes to match the levers is the solution.

5500/6400/7700/any Shimano dual pivot caliper is absolutely NOT "junk." They are some of the best caliper brakes ever made and I cannot imagine improving on them much, if any.

fietsbob

Squeeze the lever harder.

cyccommute 

In my experience, people who complain about needing "more braking power" don't understand the basics of braking and body position. People who are strictly road riders generally don't have as much understanding about how much of an effect body position has on a bicycle's braking ability.

I'm not saying anything derogatory about road bike riders, however. It's just that people who do off-road riding quickly discover how to make their brakes more effective because they ride on surfaces that are more varied. Road riders can be be a bit lazy about handling issue because the surfaces that they ride on tend to be the same all the time.

As to the need for "constant pressure" on a downhill, if you are doing that on a downhill, you are doing it wrong. No cyclist should be dragging the brakes all the way down a hill. They should learn how to pulse the brakes so that the braking is easier on the equipment and easier on the rider.

HillRider

That isn't the technique I was recommending. My point was that some brake/rim/pad combinations require so much hand pressure to stop or control the bike speed that the rider equates it with poor braking. I agree that constant brake application on long downhills can overheat the rims and tire the rider's hands but there are brakes that require so much pressure that even intermediate braking is tiring and viewed as ineffective.

well biked

The bottom line is that the OP is using brake levers and brake calipers that are not designed to work together. The brake levers in question don't have enough mechanical advantage to make the brake calipers work like they're intended. Get compatible brake calipers, and the bike will indeed have more braking power (i.e., less effort will be required at the brake lever to slow or stop the bike).

fietsbob

Alternating hard grip and release in a certain frequency cycle is how Anti Lock brakes work ..

on a bike , the release interval lets the rim cool between the gripping intervals of the brake pads..

MikeWMass

Chain reaction cycles has 5800 for $34, 6700 for $40 and 6800 for $52 each. I was running 5600 calipers with 5700 levers, just changed to 5800 calipers and definitely don't have to use as much force on the levers.

oldbobcat

Don't forget decent cables and housings. The mid-level stuff that stores buy in bulk, by brands like Jagwire, Shimano, and Bontrager is about as good as it can get.