silversx80

I have a Lynskey R240 without discs and SRAM Force22. Absolute bicycle love. And, after more than 500 hours on the frame I still feel as good about it as the first day I took it out of its shipping package and put it together. Riding Titanium is a different experience than all other bikes I've ridden in the past. Sure, it's more to do with the tubing dimensions and profiles, along with frame design, but there's a certain "singing" quality of the ride that just can't be replicated.

Bike Gremlin

Objectively, carbon frame offers most in terms of making the frame absorb road shocks and still be stiff not to twist under hard pedalling. However, placebo is a proven effect that works even in medicine, so I don't see why it wouldn't work with a bike frame: if one believes a certain material makes comfier/quicker/better ride, then it will be comfier/quicker/better for them. No arguing that.

I rode harsh stiff steel frames, and aluminium frames that were quite good at shock absorption. The main difference in frame materials, all other being equal (similar geometry and frames built for similar comfort/stiffness level), is IMO:

steel is the toughest and easiest to repair in an emergency, but also the heaviest
carbon the lightest, but impossible to improvise repairs in rural areas and a bit more sensitive, though they do make some tough ones
aluminium is a bit lighter, a bit harder to repair, a bit less tough than steel
titanium is rust proof, lighter than steel, heavier than aluminium. Tougher than aluminium, softer than steel. Wouldn't give it to any welder for repairs in a pinch, like a steel frame


The repair bit is important for touring, not much for other purpouses.

Ride "subtleness", "comfort" differences, especially if comparing one metal to the other (excluding carbon) is just something I read about on the internet. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough. Though roads in my country are really bad, so if you don't have wide tyres, so the best thing to do is go for longer chainstay (and wheelbase) and wider tyres. All else makes very little difference.

armybikerider

My .02....

I've got a 2009 Lynskey R330 bought directly from the guys in Chattanooga. I received it exactly 7 years and 2 days ago. Over those 7 years I've put 39,230 miles on the bike and I cannot say enough about the ride quality, the aesthetics, or the customer service that I have received from Lynskey. I'd but another Lynskey in a heartbeat if I needed another bike. I'm looking at riding it for the rest of my life!

jdjones

I've had carbon and now have a Moots. The feel is definitely different. Carbon kinda thumps over the bumps, like ringing a muted bell. Ti has a springish effect, like music.

rpenmanparker 

Give me a break.

Doge

Moots with Di2 - or maybe mechanical was the Shimano neutral support bike at Redlands PRT. I expect most of the America Tour

jdjones

That's my experience with my bikes. It's a valid observation and opinion. There's no need to be impolite.

rpenmanparker 

Okay. I am sorry to have been rude. I simply don't do well with unnecessarily flowery language such as "like music". Especially when it is "music" you really shouldn't want to hear.

Here is the thing. That CF feel that some folks call "dead", that is what you want for a less tiring ride. It is due to vibrations being damped in the frame and not making it into your body. That springiness in the Ti and also frequently described in steel, those are vibrations being transmitted to your body. That is not good. It is tiring. It fatigues you.

But honestly, I am assuming that you like the Ti better because of how you described it. Maybe that's wrong. No matter.

Hey, I have both. In my case the two frames feel really similar.

dr_lha

...and so a thread meant to compare one Ti bike to another Ti bike becomes another frame materials rant fest. Carry on 41... carry on.

indyfabz

Heh. At least this place is consistent. Wonder what's next. Possibly a thread about whether a carbon fork will last longer on carbon frame or a ti frame?

Maelochs

So, by reading this collection of loosely related posts, I have learned that Ti is better, worse, and that frame material does not matter.

Mr. Penmanparker--I think that vibration is unavoidable, unless one rides full suspension on pavement--which brings its own penalties.

Therefore ... to me the benefits to various sorts of damping ... CF seems to take small and mid-sized square waves and angle the leading and trailing portions. Steel seems to turn them into sine waves. The waves might have less amplitude with carbon, but are less harsh with steel. (Oddly, I think a good aluminum frame does the same ... based on back-to-back rides on CF and Alu on the same loop.)

I assume from everything I have heard and read, that good Ti sort of does the steel thing, but more so. The frame absorbs some of the bumps, and vibrates them away before they hit the rider.

None of this is scientific, and that's fine with me ... When people try to mathematically or scientifically prove that I don't feel what I feel, I tend to ignore those people. The really smart scientists can explain Why I feel what I feel ... only the less wise ones try to explain that their maths are superior to my senses.

And since ride quality is purely subjective anyway ... it seems the perfect topic to fight over ... isn't that why the Internet was invented?

We both ride a Workswell 066---would you say it really is smoother than a good metal frame? I wouldn't. I'd say it mutes the bumps but I feel like I feel every bump, whereas over the same pavement with one of my metal frames I might not feel each bump so separately and distinctly. I don't find the frame to be more or less fatiguing ... but it sure does feel different. Sorry to be so unscientific.

Fox Farm

I ride a Merlin (made in Massachusetts circa 2000) and love it. The OP's desire for disks I am not so sure about but I don't want to get the disk or non disk debate going, other than to say that my Record caliper brakes are plenty powerful. If I were building this Ti bike that the OP wants and will have carbon rims for the wheelset, sure go with disks. If not, save weight and money and go with good caliper brakes. Choosing from a Moots (RSL), a Firefly, a IndeFab, a Lynsky, Erickson, etc will be a tough call as all are really well made and hand crafted framesets. Budget of the OP has not been mentioned and this can be a real consideration. I think that the Lynsky Cooper and one or two other models are pretty reasonably priced. Moots are nice but not a bargain when it comes to purchase price. I would first get a good bike fitting done and then see if you can order a stock frame and see what deals can be found. Let us know what you come up with. Oh, and be sure to build this bike up with Campy and nothing else

Fldaves

I've owned many bikes over some 40+ years of cycling(cat4 racer) and can unequivocally say that my Lynskey R230 is hands down the best overall riding frame that I've ever owned!

rpenmanparker 

My Giant TCR Advanced was much smoother than my old steel and first Ti (Everti Falcon). The Workswell is a little harsher but not much. The Merlin Ti is the best of my current frames. The old steel frame is still the worst feeling of any of any of the frames I have owned over the last several years. The Ritchie Breakaway that I had for a couple of years was close to the best. You can see there is no material prejudice at work here.

KenshiBiker

I just got a Ti (Kish) winter commuter, and now I find myself waving at other riders.

Siu Blue Wind

I've always wanted a road bike but could not ride because of bulging disk in my lower back. I tried different brands in search of the perfect fitting bike but the longest I can ride without pain on test rides was about 10 minutes, very harsh and hard on the spine.

I ended up flying to Colorado to get properly fitted. It was an almost 3 hour process. The measurements were sent to Moots, reconfigured on a "blue print" and sent back for verification. After that, it took 12 weeks for one person to build my frame. In the meantime, I settled for lower end components because honestly, I went WAYYY past my budget for a new bike on just the frame alone.

When it arrived, it was partially built with detailed instructions on what goes where.. and what I mean by that was, there were temporary markings on the components and frame as to where things should be, because the perfect fit included all the component adjustments.

I was nervous when I took that bike out for the first time.

I came back five hours later and not even tired.

The frame and fit were perfect. The bumps in the road were nil. The handling, perfect. No regrets. And I'd do it all again even if the frame doubled in price.

UnfilteredDregs

How much do you ride? Where?

Last I read you putter about in Texas mostly on the flats.

rpenmanparker 

I find your post insulting. Flat is a fact of life where I live and ride that has nothing to do with how a bike handles rough roads. As for mileage I have many years exceeded 6,000 miles, much of it on Texas's infernal chip seal and the slopes surrounding Lake Tahoe. Nowadays not so much. Just don't think you can go head to head with me re: experience with distance mileage, and terrain and come out the winner. My capabilities since the heart attack are degraded, yes, but not my understanding about how bike materials behave.

UnfilteredDregs

lmao...You're utterly & ridiculously arrogant and you throw your "opinion" around with a disdain that reeks of bitterness.

Good that you find my post insulting, about time you get a taste of your own medicine.

markjenn

I like Ti for it's easily-maintained finish (or lack thereof), corrosion resistance, and better fatigue properties than AL. All the discussions about Ti's magical ride properties strike me as very subjective, totally unverifiable, and highly imaginative, but I do think both steel and Ti ride pretty nice - I'm just honest enough to admit that I bet I could find carbon and AL bikes that ride pretty nice as well. (I took a long ride on a Kona Private Jake AL CX bike the other day and thought it rode great.)

Given all this and combined with the fact I'm inherently cheap - I prefer to think I have a "keen sense of value" - I've never felt like investing in an already expensive frame material and then upping the ante to get one of the more boutiqueish Ti frames. So I've got an older cheapie Litespeed (Natchez) with tens of thousands of miles and a new Habanero CX bike with just a thousand or so. The Litespeed has served me well. The Hab isn't very sexy looking and probably weighs a few more ounces than the lighter Ti frames, but I'm extremely happy with the way it rides/handles and it is extremely comfortable. And it's built stout as hell.

Just pointing out that you don't need to spend a fortune to get a very serviceable Ti bike. Bikesdirect also has some great Ti values. (Usual caveots that you need to know a bit about bike wrenching before buying a BD bike is advisable.)

- Mark

rpenmanparker 

Nice thing about Ti is that the used frames are a pretty good deal. They aren't painted and so seldom need any expensive rehab to the finish. If the decals are screwed up and new ones are available, they are a cinch to remove and replace. If there are no cracks at the joints, which is the overwhelming case, you don't have to worry about frame integrity. My like-new Merlin CR Works was a phenomenal deal at $1,000. And only 1,207 g for a size 54.

exmechanic89

^This is often how I feel about a nice steel frame. I tend to think those qualities can be found in almost any material though if the frame is really well made. And while I havent ridden one, I could totally see titanium having that 'singing' quality.

exmechanic89

I feel like hold their they value pretty well. I know I've never been able to find a used one even close to what I would consider cheap. I've seen bargain used cheap carbon, steel, and alu frames, but never titanium.

rpenmanparker 

Keep in mind what they cost new. My Merlin listed for close to $3,000. 1/3 is not too shabby.

exmechanic89

Yeah I hear you.