gdlerner

Hi experts
I am traveling in Mexico now ( https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/18877 ) and I broke a spoke again, I am thinking maybe I need a new rim or let my wheel build again... not sure.Can any one recommend me a rim for Rohloff?
I asked BF and they told me this one https://www.amazon.com/SunRingle-CR-.../dp/B001CK0MO6 is a good one but in Germany very expensive , at the moment I have a Alex Rim DM18,my wife got the same one and she never broke a spoke (20000Km)
What you recommend me a new rim or let my old wheel rebuilt again with new spokes?
Thank in advance

Abu Mahendra

Velocity USA sells Cliffhanger, A23 and Dyad rims in 406 size.

jur

Breaking spokes are an indication of insufficient spoke tension. They are going slack at bottom; this results in flexing at the elbow joint and metal fatigue, and breaking spokes.

So 1st step is to tension up all spokes. If you are at rim limit, then a new rim with eyelets will be stronger.

To tension spokes, place a drop of lube such as WD-40 at each nipple at the rim hole to make sure they turn easily in the rim hole, then do systematic increase of tension.

You can check sufficient spoke tension by sitting on the bike as normally and with full load, and have another person pluck the bottom spoke. It should never go slack completely.

gdlerner

Jur the spokes are very good tension.,.when they break always in the nippel

BruceMetras

Are you lacing 1x? if not, the spoke angle is too acute and will break at the nipple .. or, the spokes are too short and not enough thread engagement at the nipple..

shrooms

Personally, when you start to break spokes it's time to rebuild a wheel or get another depends on the hub. If there is Formular or some other cheap hub the whole wheel has to go.
Also, the SunRingle rims are only 15 mm wide which makes the rim less efficient compare to some other wider 25-32mm rims options.

gdlerner

shrooms so what options?
Here some pictures

jur

The spoke entry into the nipple is acute. Get nipples with rounded profile, they will reduce that problem. I think Sapim. Breaking spokes is still a too low tension problem. You HAVE to increase tension.

shrooms

You have Rohloff hub I assume you want to keep it. I suggest to try to talk danscomp.com and tell them that you need 32H rim and so, if they don't have the rim you want they will order it for you. They can also build the wheel for you with out charge if you order their material.
Make sure you get triple or double wall welded rim, and soft brake pads for it when you get your new wheel.

jur

There is nothing wrong with that rim in the pics. It's double wall and the wear indicator is still showing strong. It would be a waste to replace the rim; that isn't the problem.

BruceMetras

Agree with Jur about the rim and proper tension .. Looks like it's laced 2x .. I'd lace 1x .. that will lessen the spoke angle to the nipple.. high flange hub + 406 rim equals bad spoke angle with anything more than 1x ..

gdlerner

Thanks I will need to go to a bike shop at home,but I will check for the nipples

jur

To me it looks like 1x.

jur

BTW what side spokes are breaking? Is it the non-drive side? According to Sheldon Brown, if non-drive side spokes are breaking, this is from too low tension on that side due to different spoke lengths and tension on drive vs non-drive side. This problem can be solved by lacing radial on non-drive side. But only for rim brakes. It looks like you have rim brakes so that's OK.

shrooms

My bad I thought gdlerner wanted to get a Sun rim instead. Still in my opinion once a wheel starts to get broken spokes it's time to rebuild the wheel.

jur

^ true dat.

My thoughts are because it is used fully laden, the spokes weren't tensioned enough in the first place, as shown by little rim wear. So I am guessing they started breaking quite soon, rather than after a long time.

[My self-built wheels even after many years have not broken spokes.]

invisiblehand

Are you doing this by feel or with a tension meter? I never realized how big the flange is on a Rohloff ... 100 mm! I just rebuilt an SRAM dual drive wheel with a PCD of 67 which I though was large. I'm not even sure you have enough space to use a tension meter with such short spokes ... I doubt it would work with the Park Tool tension meter. I'm assuming you gave all of your spokes a quick feel and no spoke stood out as under tensioned. But using the correct tool can only help.

Other than being a royal pain to mount Schwalbe tires, I gather that Alex DM18 rims are relatively strong. Ours have lasted several thousand miles and counting. Assuming you already carefully checked -- hopefully with a meter or some guess based on the consistent spoke pitch as well as feel -- and you're consistently close to 100-110 kgf. Then the angle that the spoke enters the nipple is a likely suspect. I use the Sapim nipples that Jur mentioned which do reduce the angle somewhat. I understand that some folks will alter the angle of a nipple hole with a drill bit to address this very problem too. Based on my experience altering presta valve holes to schraeder, I'd think it work out fine. Since the DM18 rims have no eyelets, it would be straightforward.

But if that's an unappealing experiment, there are rims that specifically advertise "directional spoke hole drilling" that, in theory, would reduce this problem.

Andra 40
https://www.alienationbmx.com/reposit...re/catIPAD.pdf (scroll through the PDF for "4D" drilling)

That written, it seems to me that all rims are angled somewhat. If you look at Velocity's page, the nipple holes are drilled about four degrees to the side.

Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA

Good luck!

BruceMetras

From the pictures of partial wheel, looks like it crosses the first time at the hub, and then close to the nipples .. maybe I'm missing something.. certainly a picture of the complete wheel..

gdlerner

Guys how do I know which size of the sapim nipple I need they have 12,14 and 16mm?

shrooms

All depends on which pattern will be used to rebuild the wheel. If you want the same pattern remove a spoke and measure. If not somebody who builds wheels has to measure for you. There are charts how to measure it but they are rather complicated.

invisiblehand

I think 12 is the default. In your case, the shorter one results in less spoke bend at the nipple.

ThorUSA

12 14 16 is just for easier to grab the nipple.... i.e. the thread part is always at the same spot . use 12 as they don't make the spoke bend .... little harder to true but worth it.
The Sapim nips are called Polyax
Radial or one cross is absolute must. 2 cross and you are in trouble
Ryde ANdra Rim are MUCH more angled into the spoke direction. 406 rims do exist but are usually 36 holes, 32 might be hard to find ... in Germany try to find Sandmann and tell him I send you, he might be able to help ( they usually deal with dealers only , but will make a exception )


Thor

gdlerner

Thor my actually rim got one cross and I think the rim is still good to use it again, when I am back maybe I will contact Sandmann thank you

jur

Relace the non-drive side radial, with the spokes on the INSIDE of the flange. This will reduce the angle into the nipple as well.