Do I need a ferrule for cable housing entering the Tiagra 4700 FD shifter?
08-29-17, 07:37 AM
#1
Do I need a ferrule for cable housing entering the Tiagra 4700 FD shifter?
I had a bizarre problem today - my FD shifting was always a bit mushy despite a recent brand-new Tiagra 4700 groupset install and new cables/housing. I am a noob to all this installation, so I made plenty of mistakes on the way, but tried to fix them all.
I would have this problem where the FD would work great, but then gradually lose cable tension, sometimes dramatically mid-ride. Couldn't figure it out to save the life of me, until today on my rollers I felt a quick prick on my left hand (FD shifter) and saw a wire had penetrated the rubber outer sleeve of the shifter!
I disconnected everything, and saw that my FD cable housing that enters the FD shifter was totally smashed up due to compression once I pulled it out, and the actual housing structural wall threads were all popped out and frayed, with the result that one of these wiry threads had penetrade the rubber shifter. I'm pretty sure that the housing was getting smushed with each shift, and when it got a significant smush, I effectively lost cable tension, accounting for the weird problems I had with the FD.
The actual FD cable itself was untouched and looked perfectly fine.
I'm now thinking I maybe should throw a metal ferrule on that end before it enters the shifter, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was not recommended, nor am I sure it will even fit.
Any tips to avoid this in the future?
I would have this problem where the FD would work great, but then gradually lose cable tension, sometimes dramatically mid-ride. Couldn't figure it out to save the life of me, until today on my rollers I felt a quick prick on my left hand (FD shifter) and saw a wire had penetrated the rubber outer sleeve of the shifter!
I disconnected everything, and saw that my FD cable housing that enters the FD shifter was totally smashed up due to compression once I pulled it out, and the actual housing structural wall threads were all popped out and frayed, with the result that one of these wiry threads had penetrade the rubber shifter. I'm pretty sure that the housing was getting smushed with each shift, and when it got a significant smush, I effectively lost cable tension, accounting for the weird problems I had with the FD.
The actual FD cable itself was untouched and looked perfectly fine.
I'm now thinking I maybe should throw a metal ferrule on that end before it enters the shifter, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was not recommended, nor am I sure it will even fit.
Any tips to avoid this in the future?
08-29-17, 10:05 AM
#2
Full Member
Based on your description it seems that you are saying that the cable housing has been damaged. As you may be aware gear housings contain a nominally linear set of steel wires as opposed to brake cables which have a helical spiral. The idea is that for indexed shifting the housing remains stiff under compression.
Gear housings are 4mm diameter. Brake housings are 5mm diameter. However you may also run into a problem whereby the termination point of the housing, grasping for words here, accepts a 5mm ferrule. Now you have to put on a 4mm ferrule to suit the gear housing and add a 5mm ferrule to match the termination point.
I am kind of surprised, assuming I have interpreted your description properly, that your gear outer has failed in such a manner but I guess things happen. I have no idea why adding the ferrules is not recommended. I would and do fit them as a matter of course. It should kind of make sense that they will act to re-enforce the end of the housing and prevent such 'fraying'.
Gear housings are 4mm diameter. Brake housings are 5mm diameter. However you may also run into a problem whereby the termination point of the housing, grasping for words here, accepts a 5mm ferrule. Now you have to put on a 4mm ferrule to suit the gear housing and add a 5mm ferrule to match the termination point.
I am kind of surprised, assuming I have interpreted your description properly, that your gear outer has failed in such a manner but I guess things happen. I have no idea why adding the ferrules is not recommended. I would and do fit them as a matter of course. It should kind of make sense that they will act to re-enforce the end of the housing and prevent such 'fraying'.
08-29-17, 10:21 AM
#3
Senior Member
IME the routing and construction of the brifter is such that ferrule is not needed, there is, so to speak an internal ferrule in the
brifter. Ferrules are used elsewhere along the bike frame as per chorlton. A good clean cut to the housing with no damage to
the housing covering and avoiding or repairing any crush incurred in the cutting should be enough. If you can get a ferrule into
the brifter, use it.
brifter. Ferrules are used elsewhere along the bike frame as per chorlton. A good clean cut to the housing with no damage to
the housing covering and avoiding or repairing any crush incurred in the cutting should be enough. If you can get a ferrule into
the brifter, use it.
08-29-17, 11:52 AM
#4
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depending on exactly how the casing was cut, it might have a bent casing strand protruding into the cable's path... this would cause minor drag, and eventually wear through the cable.
i always use an awl pick to dress the ends of casings, and prefer to cut stranded casings with a thin disc cutter, not wire cutters or snips.... if there is ANY drag experienced when i slip the cable through the casing, i re-trim/re-dress it....
stranded casing is trickier to work with initially, but yields a much crisper shifting compared to coiled casings... and the Tiagra 4700 group is not as precise as 105/ultgra/dura ace.... "sloppy" is a frequently used term regarding 4700 stuff... initial set up gets tricky, too....
i always use an awl pick to dress the ends of casings, and prefer to cut stranded casings with a thin disc cutter, not wire cutters or snips.... if there is ANY drag experienced when i slip the cable through the casing, i re-trim/re-dress it....
stranded casing is trickier to work with initially, but yields a much crisper shifting compared to coiled casings... and the Tiagra 4700 group is not as precise as 105/ultgra/dura ace.... "sloppy" is a frequently used term regarding 4700 stuff... initial set up gets tricky, too....
Last edited by maddog34; 08-29-17 at 11:58 AM.
08-29-17, 12:35 PM
#6
Good points above - I do take care to try and have as clean as possible cable ends but it's possible that one of the fibers worked loose; although you should have seen it - the entire plastic housing was smashed down and the housing wires were splayed apart like they exploded.
I actually now suspect that the culprit may have been a Jagwire inline cable adjuster in the front housing that I installed and noted that I had a bit of a hard time when near-maxxing it out. I'll bet that as I was forcing the turns on that cable adjuster, I was crushing the cable housing into the shifter. I'll def not turn it as hard at the max limit next time.
I actually now suspect that the culprit may have been a Jagwire inline cable adjuster in the front housing that I installed and noted that I had a bit of a hard time when near-maxxing it out. I'll bet that as I was forcing the turns on that cable adjuster, I was crushing the cable housing into the shifter. I'll def not turn it as hard at the max limit next time.
08-29-17, 12:55 PM
#7
Full Member
Good points above - I do take care to try and have as clean as possible cable ends but it's possible that one of the fibers worked loose; although you should have seen it - the entire plastic housing was smashed down and the housing wires were splayed apart like they exploded.
I actually now suspect that the culprit may have been a Jagwire inline cable adjuster in the front housing that I installed and noted that I had a bit of a hard time when near-maxxing it out. I'll bet that as I was forcing the turns on that cable adjuster, I was crushing the cable housing into the shifter. I'll def not turn it as hard at the max limit next time.
I actually now suspect that the culprit may have been a Jagwire inline cable adjuster in the front housing that I installed and noted that I had a bit of a hard time when near-maxxing it out. I'll bet that as I was forcing the turns on that cable adjuster, I was crushing the cable housing into the shifter. I'll def not turn it as hard at the max limit next time.
08-29-17, 01:04 PM
#8
Senior Member
One thing to do to the housing is to use a metal file or a disc cutter to file down any burrs or rough spots on the tip of compression wires . It always a good idea to use a ferrules on the end of the cable housing .
08-29-17, 01:47 PM
#9
I've have seen this twice, both times the strands pulled through the plastic ferrules at the shifter end wasn't my bike so don't know the cause. My cheap in line adjusters are very easy to turn?
08-29-17, 02:52 PM
#10
Senior Member
IME the routing and construction of the brifter is such that ferrule is not needed, there is, so to speak an internal ferrule in the
brifter. Ferrules are used elsewhere along the bike frame as per chorlton. A good clean cut to the housing with no damage to
the housing covering and avoiding or repairing any crush incurred in the cutting should be enough. If you can get a ferrule into
the brifter, use it.
brifter. Ferrules are used elsewhere along the bike frame as per chorlton. A good clean cut to the housing with no damage to
the housing covering and avoiding or repairing any crush incurred in the cutting should be enough. If you can get a ferrule into
the brifter, use it.
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-ST0002-04-ENG.pdf
08-29-17, 03:48 PM
#11
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not true for 4700/5800/6800/9000. You need a special ferrule for the shifter install
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-ST0002-04-ENG.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-ST0002-04-ENG.pdf
New 4700 levers come with the cable set and the ferrules.
08-29-17, 08:33 PM
#12
OP here - amazingly, I somehow managed to find that exact Shimano plastic ferrule pictured above, and sure enough, it fits into the shifter! Didn't see that on any of the videos I watched on youtube to install cables (and I watched a lot of them.)
Thx for the tip
Does anyone know where one can order more of these? I'm surely going to lose it at some point.
Thx for the tip
Does anyone know where one can order more of these? I'm surely going to lose it at some point.
08-29-17, 08:34 PM
#13
08-29-17, 10:14 PM
#14
Senior Member
OP here - amazingly, I somehow managed to find that exact Shimano plastic ferrule pictured above, and sure enough, it fits into the shifter! Didn't see that on any of the videos I watched on youtube to install cables (and I watched a lot of them.)
Thx for the tip
Does anyone know where one can order more of these? I'm surely going to lose it at some point.
Thx for the tip
Does anyone know where one can order more of these? I'm surely going to lose it at some point.
08-30-17, 06:50 PM
#16
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I had the same problem before, with ferrule. I replaced the housing with brake housing and there is no problem now. No decrease in precision also.
08-31-17, 11:12 AM
#17
Senior Member
you replaced stranded 4mm shift cable housing with 5mm brake cable housing on a 4700 groupset? How? I don't believe the indexing is working correctly
09-02-17, 01:02 PM
#18
Senior Member
