steppinthrax

So I've been getting my bike together so far. It is a Trek Multitrak 7200 I have a new chain, bb and I've lubed/greased much of everything. I use the following procedure to adjust my rear derailleur. I'm using the ST-EF51 Shifters, they are the only component that is not original to the bike (manufacture). This has an 8 speed rear Scram cassette and front 3 speed crank. I have not installed the front derailleur yet, not sure if that matters?

1. I loosen the derailleur cable, turn the indexer all the way in and adjust the low screw so that there is no noise when moving in the smallest gear (on the cassette).
2. I make sure the chain is on the largest gear on the crank.
3. Once I got the low screw adjusted so that there is no noise when I spin the crank.
4. I moved up in gears and my process was I would adjust the index on the derailleur when I would reach a point of hesitation or there was noise once it got into that gear.
5. I did this all the up to the last gear (largest).

A few more things, I liberally greased the derailleur. I took it off, cleaned it and used lithium grease on it. Also the cassette on the bike is a scram (it's the original cassette) as well as the original derailleur, so they were designed to work with each other. I've heard from others on here that you don't mix scram and Shimano components. So the only thing that is different is shifters used to be Scram twist shifters, I replaced them to the Shimano ST-EF51, so I'm not sure if I'm having cable pull problems!!!

So the issue I'm getting is I will get hesitation (usually) in the 4th gear. I can adjust this with indexing and I'm finding that once I make adjustments for the lower gears, then It affects the uppers. It's almost like If I adjust one area, it creates problems in the other areas. The other thing I get is that occasionally the rear derailleur will adjust the front chain, force it onto the 2nd sprocket. Not sure if this is because I don't have a front derailleur yet.

I will get some noise in a particular gear, I adjust for that noise by moving the indexer then It creates noise in another gear.

If anyone can be of help, thanks.

maddog34

lithium grease is too thick of lube for a derailleur, IMO.

sounds like you're having a cable drag problem... a new derailleur should not require lubing.

look for kinks in the cable, sharp bends in the cable casing, burrs at the ends of the casings, and possibly the wrong cable casing type.
Shift cables need STRANDED casing to help limit cable tension being lost to casing compression... the old style coil reinforced casings are not up to the indexing task, and brake cable housing is the wrong interior size, plus is usually a coil type casing.

you DID install new cables, right?

there's a chance you have the cable anchored to the der. in an incorrect position, too... the cable is clamped behind the allen screw, right? if clamped in FRONT of the allen, the pull ratio will be altered...

you didn't lube the CABLES with that grease, did you? if so, start cleaning now.

the Alivio ders. and the ST-E51's SHOULD work fantastic together.... i have a bike here right now set up with them, actually... 3x7 setup, and the customer has an 8 speed cassette on the rear wheel... still shifts fairly close to correctly...

He wants a 3x8 shifter set installed... upgrade! going on today.

Question: just how tight does the CHAIN act when you have the shifting issues? and have you gone through the "B-Screw adjustment" procedure yet? the der. should look about parallel to the chain stay tube...

fietsbob

Step 1,

Use the hanger alignment shop tool , the indexing depends on the derailleur hanger being straight, and eyeballing is inadequate..

trailangel

Yes, Align hanger. Adjust high screw stop so DR upper pulley is just to the outside of the smallest cog, not dead on.

bikeman715

+100

steppinthrax

Thanks for your reply.

All the cables have been replaced. I did reuse the old tubes, but I did check to verify that the steel cable was FREE within the tube. I ran new steel wires and I even put new donuts on the top tube where it's exposed. I'm pretty confident that the cable is free and clear.

In terms of the derailleur, this is an old derailleur, not new. Just to give you the history, this bike sat outside more than it was rode. So there was some corrosion issues and replacement of some components. There is no rust or obvious damage the derailleur, but I'm not sure if it could be bad, if so what should I look for.

When you mean cable is clamped behind the allen, you mean under the metal plate that the allen screws down to, yes, it's underneath the plate and the wire is in the groove where it sits.

No the cables were not lubbed.

In terms of the chain. I used a simple 5/7/8 Bell chain. Not sure if that's wrong?? It was advertised for 5/6/7/8 speed etc... I believe it's 1/2 inch x 3/32, I didn't consider chain.

I didnd't really mess with the B-screw, I put it somewhere in the middle.

Retro Grouch 

You didn't mention the derailleur hanger alignment issue.

On a bike that old the odds of the derailleur hanger being bent are significant. If the derailleur isn't aligned parallel to the cassette cogs, no amount of cable tension tuning is going to make it index properly across the cassette. Try this:

1. Shift your bike into a gear combination that makes the derailleur arm point straight down.
2. Prop your bike up vertically against a wall or something.
3. Now look at your derailleur arm from the back. If the derailleur seems to be pointing toward the rear tire, that's it!

To have a bike shop check and correct the derailleur hanger alignment is about a $15.00 service. I've had good luck aligning 7-speed derailleur hangers by eye but I need the gauge to align 9-speed and above.

maddog34

Ahhh, an Old Alivio... it may be worn... that also will bring reluctant shifing up... and down... and variable chain noise...

i'm no fan of that particular chain brand, but they just wear fast, shouldn't cause shift issues when new... get a KMC z71 next time... a bit more money, but MUCH better!
Bell chain is usually flat-sided, other better chains have shifting aids built into the side plates...

do get the Der. hanger checked... if to just keep more from suggesting it.

Inspect the Der. by grabbing and twisting just enough to check the freeplay of each hinge point... they will all have a tiny bit of play, but too much causes trouble.
ALL the pivot points are checked, one by one.... and then overall slop too...

Rollers can be too loose also... they have more play than people think, but TOO much sucks.

I've replaced several old chromed Altus and Alivio rear ders. in the last few years... looks like the end of their life cycle...

maddog34

Ahhh, an Old Alivio... it may be worn... that also will bring reluctant shifing up... and down... and variable chain noise...

i'm no fan of that particular chain brand, but they just wear fast, shouldn't cause shift issues when new... get a KMC z71 next time... a bit more money, but MUCH better!
Bell chain is usually flat-sided, other better chains have shifting aids built into the side plates...

do get the Der. hanger checked... if to just keep more from suggesting it.

Inspect the Der. by grabbing and twisting just enough to check the freeplay of each hinge point... they will all have a tiny bit of play, but too much causes trouble.
ALL the pivot points are checked, one by one.... and then overall slop too...

Rollers can be too loose also... they have more play than people think, but TOO much sucks.

steppinthrax

I haven't mentioned the derailleur hanger alignment because I don't know and never considered it to be critical. I was looking at the derailleur hanger last night and it seemed to be bent a little bit inwards, but that might be by design or my eyes not seeing it correctly. But If I would go that route I might want to replace the freebody/freehub because when I was repacking the rear bearings I noticed the freebody was dry (the balls were shaking). The wheel is true, I did see a one line video from park tool on how to do the alignment, it dosen't look tough.

steppinthrax

So I took the der off the bike and twisted it in all configurations. I especially tried to twist it from the pivot points and rivets. I found to play. It's tight as can be. I did wash the excess oil off with soap/water and dried it with alcohol. it's still free and easy to manipulate, no sticking. I inspected the der carefully and didn't see anything wrong.