Dura-Ace v. Ultegra
05-04-18, 08:58 PM
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I digress... the point is unless you're being paid to ride professionally you don't really NEED Dura Ace. You might want it, but you don't need it, and it's not going to affect your shift quality. I'd prefer 6870 DI2 over mechanical Dura Ace actu ally every day of the week and twice on Tuesday because that will affect your shift quality you will never drop a chain, it will always work regardless of how you ride it, you can abuse the crap out of it and you will never miss a shift. You can even cross chain and then shift while you are standing on the pedals and it will not drop the chain. It will protest a bit, but you won't drop your chain.You can reduce the added weight of DI2 simply by losing a couple hundred grams off your body weight, or simply by choosing a carbon seat post and stem. I'd rather ride anything DI2 before Dura Ace unless someone is paying me to ride Dura Ace DI2.
DI2 --> Dura Ace mechanical... It's not even a contest. It's a bit like asking for a manual box in an AMG. You could get one but you'd be an idiot if you did.
05-05-18, 09:40 AM
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05-05-18, 10:19 AM
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- I don't believe it is nescessary to ride carbon bikes every day.
- I don't believe it makes you any faster overall on the law of averages of the average rider.
- I don't believe its nescessary to spend that much money to enjoy bikes.
- I don't believe its nescessary to spend that much money on bikes that are so easily broken in a crash.
- I do believe that if you're good enough that someone else will pay you to ride a carbon bike.
Last edited by 1500SLR; 05-05-18 at 02:26 PM.
05-05-18, 04:20 PM
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- I don't believe it is nescessary to ride carbon bikes every day.
- I don't believe it makes you any faster overall on the law of averages of the average rider.
- I don't believe its nescessary to spend that much money to enjoy bikes.
- I don't believe its nescessary to spend that much money on bikes that are so easily broken in a crash.
- I do believe that if you're good enough that someone else will pay you to ride a carbon bike.
05-06-18, 12:13 AM
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05-06-18, 12:25 AM
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people want to reiterate the timeless ad. Nauseun reaponse that carbon is stronger than steel with little to verify anything they're saying other than simulated repetitive stree excercises that bear no resemblance to reality. Your point about carbon being lighter than aluminium is a completely irrelevant fact. Take two bikes made of different materials and you can make them lighter than what the UCI limit is currently set at 6.8kh and that's a fact. The characteristics of said bikes are then purely fueled by a matter of choice.
05-06-18, 05:48 AM
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Well, that went well.
05-06-18, 06:51 AM
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Let's move on gents, enough with the animosity.
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05-06-18, 07:18 AM
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So anyway, Ultegra is freakin' sweet, but Dura Ace is the duck's guts.
Someone was bagging the name a couple of pages back... I read somewhere it's a portmanteau of ultimate and integrity. I'm also not a fan... I reckon it'd be super cool if it went back to 600 and they busted out the ol' tricolour, and did it with nifty anodising.
Someone was bagging the name a couple of pages back... I read somewhere it's a portmanteau of ultimate and integrity. I'm also not a fan... I reckon it'd be super cool if it went back to 600 and they busted out the ol' tricolour, and did it with nifty anodising.
05-06-18, 07:48 AM
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I was pondering just that, and wondering how long it would take, if ever, for anything resembling that to come back into style... I don't think it's on the cards. There's a mob here in Melbourne that does mad panto work; maybe they'll do arabesque Ultegra for someone one of these days.
As for tricolour 600, I have a nice idea for it... I think I'll mock something up tomorrow for the ****s and giggles.
As for tricolour 600, I have a nice idea for it... I think I'll mock something up tomorrow for the ****s and giggles.
Last edited by cb400bill; 05-06-18 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Please do not bypass the forum censor.
05-06-18, 06:59 PM
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I don't know if I should contribute to this thread or not... I don't post much. But I do have some experience with the topic and oddly enough, with a 1500 SLR from 2006.
I own a 2006 Trek 1500. It came with some 105/ultegra mix in 2006. Then about 2 or 3 years ago (i forget) I replaced it all with 5800 105 compact 50/34 and 11-32. I was pretty shocked at how big of an upgrade that was in terms of drive train smoothness and STI lever feel, and even the brakes. I don't think durace would have done anything more for me. Same with R8000 vs 9100. Those are even more similar in function and feel than the last generation IMO.
And to address mr. 1500 SLR. I don't know how you can be such a stanch advocate of aluminum on this frameset. It's not bad, but holy crap does it transmit huge amounts of frequency from the road to my hands. Its pretty stiff, but nothing like a current gen higher end carbon. New aluminum (thinking like Trek Domane or Emonda ALR stuff) is pretty decent, but even then.
I ordered myself a 2018 Trek Domane SLR 6 disc with Aeolus carbon wheels, it has Ultegra R8000. I am kinda shocked at how much this thing costs, and getting durace is another $1000 USD... not worth it. Let alone di2 (which I would love, but holy crap $$$) Regarding the frames... Ignoring weight, the feel when putting power down is amazing. The compliance in terms of frequencies from bumps to buzz is orders of magnitude better than anything metal I have ridden (admittedly not a huge number of bikes, but still.) . I am very excited to make the jump to carbon. just my opinion...I think the highest levels of comfort are well within the carbon range. I have heard good things about flexy steel stuff, but that tends to be more custom stuff I think? or old stuff? Whatever.... I don't see the point of arguing over it, but what I would love to hear is just more honest reviews and perceptions of what people have actually ridden, and not try to defend every possible permutation of materials out there.
Arguing on the internet just feels icky... arguing on the road with buddies feels a lot more fun, but I try pretty hard to NOT talk about gear on the road because I think its a bit in poor taste also.
I own a 2006 Trek 1500. It came with some 105/ultegra mix in 2006. Then about 2 or 3 years ago (i forget) I replaced it all with 5800 105 compact 50/34 and 11-32. I was pretty shocked at how big of an upgrade that was in terms of drive train smoothness and STI lever feel, and even the brakes. I don't think durace would have done anything more for me. Same with R8000 vs 9100. Those are even more similar in function and feel than the last generation IMO.
And to address mr. 1500 SLR. I don't know how you can be such a stanch advocate of aluminum on this frameset. It's not bad, but holy crap does it transmit huge amounts of frequency from the road to my hands. Its pretty stiff, but nothing like a current gen higher end carbon. New aluminum (thinking like Trek Domane or Emonda ALR stuff) is pretty decent, but even then.
I ordered myself a 2018 Trek Domane SLR 6 disc with Aeolus carbon wheels, it has Ultegra R8000. I am kinda shocked at how much this thing costs, and getting durace is another $1000 USD... not worth it. Let alone di2 (which I would love, but holy crap $$$) Regarding the frames... Ignoring weight, the feel when putting power down is amazing. The compliance in terms of frequencies from bumps to buzz is orders of magnitude better than anything metal I have ridden (admittedly not a huge number of bikes, but still.) . I am very excited to make the jump to carbon. just my opinion...I think the highest levels of comfort are well within the carbon range. I have heard good things about flexy steel stuff, but that tends to be more custom stuff I think? or old stuff? Whatever.... I don't see the point of arguing over it, but what I would love to hear is just more honest reviews and perceptions of what people have actually ridden, and not try to defend every possible permutation of materials out there.
Arguing on the internet just feels icky... arguing on the road with buddies feels a lot more fun, but I try pretty hard to NOT talk about gear on the road because I think its a bit in poor taste also.
05-07-18, 07:34 AM
#93
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I don't know if I should contribute to this thread or not... I don't post much. But I do have some experience with the topic and oddly enough, with a 1500 SLR from 2006.
I own a 2006 Trek 1500. It came with some 105/ultegra mix in 2006. Then about 2 or 3 years ago (i forget) I replaced it all with 5800 105 compact 50/34 and 11-32. I was pretty shocked at how big of an upgrade that was in terms of drive train smoothness and STI lever feel, and even the brakes. I don't think durace would have done anything more for me. Same with R8000 vs 9100. Those are even more similar in function and feel than the last generation IMO.
And to address mr. 1500 SLR. I don't know how you can be such a stanch advocate of aluminum on this frameset. It's not bad, but holy crap does it transmit huge amounts of frequency from the road to my hands. Its pretty stiff, but nothing like a current gen higher end carbon. New aluminum (thinking like Trek Domane or Emonda ALR stuff) is pretty decent, but even then.
I ordered myself a 2018 Trek Domane SLR 6 disc with Aeolus carbon wheels, it has Ultegra R8000. I am kinda shocked at how much this thing costs, and getting durace is another $1000 USD... not worth it. Let alone di2 (which I would love, but holy crap $$$) Regarding the frames... Ignoring weight, the feel when putting power down is amazing. The compliance in terms of frequencies from bumps to buzz is orders of magnitude better than anything metal I have ridden (admittedly not a huge number of bikes, but still.) . I am very excited to make the jump to carbon. just my opinion...I think the highest levels of comfort are well within the carbon range. I have heard good things about flexy steel stuff, but that tends to be more custom stuff I think? or old stuff? Whatever.... I don't see the point of arguing over it, but what I would love to hear is just more honest reviews and perceptions of what people have actually ridden, and not try to defend every possible permutation of materials out there.
Arguing on the internet just feels icky... arguing on the road with buddies feels a lot more fun, but I try pretty hard to NOT talk about gear on the road because I think its a bit in poor taste also.
I own a 2006 Trek 1500. It came with some 105/ultegra mix in 2006. Then about 2 or 3 years ago (i forget) I replaced it all with 5800 105 compact 50/34 and 11-32. I was pretty shocked at how big of an upgrade that was in terms of drive train smoothness and STI lever feel, and even the brakes. I don't think durace would have done anything more for me. Same with R8000 vs 9100. Those are even more similar in function and feel than the last generation IMO.
And to address mr. 1500 SLR. I don't know how you can be such a stanch advocate of aluminum on this frameset. It's not bad, but holy crap does it transmit huge amounts of frequency from the road to my hands. Its pretty stiff, but nothing like a current gen higher end carbon. New aluminum (thinking like Trek Domane or Emonda ALR stuff) is pretty decent, but even then.
I ordered myself a 2018 Trek Domane SLR 6 disc with Aeolus carbon wheels, it has Ultegra R8000. I am kinda shocked at how much this thing costs, and getting durace is another $1000 USD... not worth it. Let alone di2 (which I would love, but holy crap $$$) Regarding the frames... Ignoring weight, the feel when putting power down is amazing. The compliance in terms of frequencies from bumps to buzz is orders of magnitude better than anything metal I have ridden (admittedly not a huge number of bikes, but still.) . I am very excited to make the jump to carbon. just my opinion...I think the highest levels of comfort are well within the carbon range. I have heard good things about flexy steel stuff, but that tends to be more custom stuff I think? or old stuff? Whatever.... I don't see the point of arguing over it, but what I would love to hear is just more honest reviews and perceptions of what people have actually ridden, and not try to defend every possible permutation of materials out there.
Arguing on the internet just feels icky... arguing on the road with buddies feels a lot more fun, but I try pretty hard to NOT talk about gear on the road because I think its a bit in poor taste also.
I agree, Dura Ace was probably not worth it, you will love the Ultegra.
And yes, first time I rode a carbon frame was also a major eye opener for me. My first full carbon bike was a Trek 5200 from 2001, it just felt so fast. However when I compare it now to my carbon 2010 BMC SLC01 it rides quite harsh actually.
Good luck with the new bike and enjoy!
05-07-18, 09:58 AM
#94
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How much did you pay for that new bike if I may ask? Yes, new bikes are expensive, I was shocked by the prices when I got into the sport a couple of years ago. Always have been buying used so far, as I cannot see myself dropping $4k on a bicycle still.
I agree, Dura Ace was probably not worth it, you will love the Ultegra.
And yes, first time I rode a carbon frame was also a major eye opener for me. My first full carbon bike was a Trek 5200 from 2001, it just felt so fast. However when I compare it now to my carbon 2010 BMC SLC01 it rides quite harsh actually.
Good luck with the new bike and enjoy!
I agree, Dura Ace was probably not worth it, you will love the Ultegra.
And yes, first time I rode a carbon frame was also a major eye opener for me. My first full carbon bike was a Trek 5200 from 2001, it just felt so fast. However when I compare it now to my carbon 2010 BMC SLC01 it rides quite harsh actually.
Good luck with the new bike and enjoy!
But an SLR 8, which is my bike with mechanical dura ace is $8k. And one with di2 is approaching $10k!!! for the same bike otherwise!
Here she is.
Last edited by mbw; 05-07-18 at 10:13 AM.
05-09-18, 10:05 AM
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I did project one for a size 60 SLR 6 Disc, with a $500 paint job (all just because I wanted glossy waterloo blue and not matte black). Plus $600 for upgrade to Aeolus Pro 3 wheels. Also added the duotrap sensor. So mine ended up around $6500. I know.. kinda nuts, but its a luxury and I will enjoy the crap out of it. A SL 6 Disc would have been plenty of bike, but the SLR has even more compliance (~15%) and the isocore carbon handlebars with those four foam pads are soooo comfy, and I wanted that paint which is SLR only. So I just splurged.
But an SLR 8, which is my bike with mechanical dura ace is $8k. And one with di2 is approaching $10k!!! for the same bike otherwise!
Here she is.
But an SLR 8, which is my bike with mechanical dura ace is $8k. And one with di2 is approaching $10k!!! for the same bike otherwise!
Here she is.
05-09-18, 10:15 AM
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I knew from a test ride of the older Domane that I liked the fit, so I wasn't worried about that. Plus I like the look of this model more than anything else. I think the quality and details on Treks are top notch. They cost a premium, but I believe it is mostly justified.