Gege-Bubu

I sign up for race. This is triathlon distance 56 miles 4500 ft climbing.
The climb is something I never did before, but I hope I have enough time to train for it.

I think my problem could be my bike. I got old Cannondale at about 18-19lb
I am planing to get at least new cassette 11-32 that hopefully will go well with 36/50 crank.
However, at my current miserable FTP 220W 3.45 W/kg - I am afraid it still will be hard.

I was naturally thinking about new bike and I like Emonda, that I did test ride yesterday
I liked the ride quality a lot, the bike feels stiff and it dampens the road really well.
The new bike is about 3lb lighter than mine, which is a lot.

The problem is not only the new bike price, about $3000 with aluminum wheels,
but the fit. I like my saddle really high, the tech said that this is because I have longer legs (I am not buying it completely but it could be true)
He said that he cannot do the same height on frame size 50, it will be about 5mm lower. Because of that they are trying to talk me into
another frame size 52. But i feel a little stretched over size 52. Maybe I will get use to it, but I hate short stems.

They also have offered an option to buy just the frame and transfer all we can from the old bike components Ultegra 6800.
But it is not getting much cheaper: all new components they will install are overpriced,
for example Bontrager brake set is about $300, but I can buy the same Ultegra for much less.
The same thing about RD, they say need new pulleys and price them at $100 or something. - I can buy new RD for that price.
They give me a good deal on the frame itself though, about $1100 - but only if I will build the bike with them. Which is not a good deal.
I would save a couple hundreds, but not much.

I have looked around for ebay or used Emondas but could not see the one I can confidently buy.

So, the first problem I have is proper fit: 50 or 52? My current CAAD frame is 51
The test ride I did was 52, the store did not have size 50 in stock. It felt ok, but I like to get lower in the drops. maybe removing all spacers and flipping the stem will fix it, but I have to try
The fitters I have seen in the past always trying to get me into larger frame.

Another problem that $3000 is way over my budget that I want to spend.
I can keep looking for a used frame, but I would like to be confident that I can buy, fit and get used to the new frame before the race.

I can always buy Aliexpress frame, but I am not sure if it will replicate Emonda ride quality.

Or may be I just need to train harder

Just want to hear your opinions on frame, fit, build, new bike and what would you do, or how much would you spend on it

Thanks!!!

datlas 

I advise ride what you have and train more. The amount of time you will save from losing a few pounds on the bike is really modest.

That said, if you are independently wealthy go ahead and spend away!

Bah Humbug

If your old Cannondale is legitimately under 20lbs, you have no reason to get a new bike for this tri. You certainly have no reason to get a new road bike. If you want to go faster at the tri, get a disc cover for your rear wheel (Wheelbuilder makes them), get a budget deep front if you can (even a Jet 5 Express or similar), latex tubes, fast tires (GP4K, GP5K, Corsa Speed), aero road bars with the flats not wrapped (or clip-ons if you're comfortable using them), and an aero helmet. All of that costs way less than a new bike and will make far more difference than an Emonda.

Is this (likely to be) a wetsuit race? If so, get a wetsuit. If not, a swimskin. What were you going to wear during the race? A seriously tight race kit makes a world of difference; I find De Soto suits are fastest for me. A bike kit will be miserable.

And train, and by that I mean train climbing. Learn to pace your effort on the climbs so they aren't taking a toll on your legs (this will mean going slower than you want to). Try running after those rides, then you'll probably realize you need to take the climbs even easier. Figure out how much sugar you can eat and drink on the bike without getting sick, and then if you can run after that without getting sick. Continue to do that until a 3-hour ride and 30-minute run are cake.

Did I forget to mention, make sure you know how to swim?

nomadmax 

When I was racing, my policy was to add additional quality training time consumate with the amount of time I had to spend working to pay for "better/faster" equipment. Worked EVERY time.

69chevy

With your weight, power and current bike, you'd save around 30 seconds over those 56 miles by dropping three pounds.

Buy yourself a second/$100.

Sounds like a bargain.

Carbonfiberboy 

As above, however it sounds like you don't know what a fast fit looks/feels like. IMO you should take your current bike to a fitter experienced in tri fits. That's the most speed you can get for the money. And ASAP so you can train with the new fit.

3 lbs. is not a lot, unless you have good chance of getting on the podium. In that case, it's a lot.

base2 

So you weigh 140.58 pounds.
Your bike is 20 pounds, so is 14.22% of your weight. A total of 160 pounds bike+rider.
A 17 pound bike is 12.09% of your weight. 157 pounds total bike+rider.

$3000 for 1.875% improvement in weight in isolation of all other factors.
$1000 per pound...Wow.

Aero & especially the discipline to hold a more aero position would be where I'd look if money had any meaning at all.

Keeping in mind though, the most aero wheels in the world aren't necessarily the fastest if you also have to carry that weight up mountains...I guess what I'm saying is different horses for different courses. Deep dish (but heavier) wheels on flat courses & lighter weight wheels on hilly courses might be money better spent, but neither so good as the discipline to hold optimum riding position.

I am arm-chairing this, of course. My FTP is 3.17 & I just doodle around. If I were a serious athlete, I'd actually train & equip for the course at hand.

caloso

Train more, eat better, and lose those 3 pounds off your body.

mgopack42 

i personally think the OP will be fine. I have a FTP of about the same and i weigh a lot more so that my power to weight is about 2.5 watts/Kg. i just did 3350 ft of climbing on a steel bike with a 39-30 (my CF bike has a 34 - 29). it was hard, but not impossible. if you make the gearing changes, and go out and ride some hills, you can do this!

rms13

What bike do you have exactly? Sounds like you are saying it's a CAAD with Ultegra 6800 in size 51? Cannondale doesn't sell a 51 so it's 50 or 52. If you have a CAAD10 with 6800 the quoted stock weight for a size 56 is around 17 lbs so I doubt you have a size 50 or 52 that is 18-19 lb unless you have one that is not stock and has parts that are much heavier then stock. Either way CAAD is a very light frameset and there are probably some ways to make your bike lighter like wheels for example that would be cheaper then spending $3000+ on a new bike. Either way 4500 feet over 56 miles isn't crazy unless that 4500 feet is over a smaller section of the race. I think having a 32t cog on the cassette and a 17lb-ish bike should be enough to complete the race if you are reasonably fit.

Bah Humbug

Aero wheels aren't even really heavy, and the numbers bear out that weight gained for the purpose of aero pays itself back on the downhill and then some. Unless the ride is point-to-point with net elevation gain, he will be faster with aero wheels, even "heavy" HED Jets.

Alohaman (https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...MAP_2019-2.pdf) has over 10,000' of climbing on a full 112-mile ride, and they still recommend tri bikes for that.

Racing Dan

56 mi, 4500ft, 220W, road bike 19 vs 16 lbs ... 3 lbs will save all of ONE minute. That may or may not matter to you. You decide.
Imo, get good tyres and get your clothing sorted and you are good to go. Didn't read all of it. - Get a tri bar if unless you already have one.

surak

Why not both?

Can you go to any other Trek dealers? The one you went to seems to have done an underwhelming job looking for solutions to fitting you. They could have suggested a longer seatpost for the 50cm, or a zero offset seatpost and/or shorter reach bars for 52cm to keep the stem length long.

Seattle Forrest

Has anybody suggested a motor yet?

Maybe you train really hard and gain 10w. Maybe you eat rabbit food to drop 7 pounds and pay $3k for a bike to drop 3 more. Or, you get another 250w from a motor and whistle your favorite song while you coast up the hills past everyone else.

base2 

I agree. But there is a point of diminishing returns. But super deeps can be awfully heavy in comparison to much shallower options and offer marginal gains that diminish the first time the rider scratches his nose or sits up to sneeze. In that case, it's just not worth the cost because the net gain becomes zero. Then there is cross wind stability, rolling resistance, etc...to consider. I really don't know the course. There might be 30 miles of 10% grade...that would weigh heavily in the equipment choice equation. Going up being a completly different arena than going down. It it chip seal? What are the expected prevailing winds?

My point is unless there is some particular quality unique to a specific course, then a more rounded wheelset IMO just may become a smarter buy for a wider variety of conditions/courses. (I will research the linked course after hitting the reply button) I guess a lot might be whether he is going to finish top 10 or top 100.

I suggest the OP research the dickens out of the course to see what the best options are. A whole bike for $3k or the best possible optimum fit, wheel set & the discipline to make use of it for $3k? I know what I'd choose.

Racing Dan

Also 90% of the participants compete for secondary or tertiary spots. Hardly worth paying thousands to advance from 63rd to 55th place. Imo.

CliffordK

How many people here will advise not to buy a new bike....

Then turn around and buy a $5000 bicycle themselves?

As far as 50 vs 52, did you mention how tall you are?

Can you buy a longer seatpost?

Personally I'm not real picky about frame size, and will ride a variety of frames. The smaller frames are easier to get the bars dropped for a more aero position.

But, I find the larger frames are more comfortable for casual riding. Ok, so I was broken by buying what was probably an oversized frame when I was a teenager, and rode it for decades.

This is also one of the reasons I'm more drawn towards the more vintage bikes with horizontal top tubes, and not super-long seat posts, as well as lower head tubes.

If you are looking for a NEW bike, spend some time going to a few different brands and plowing through all the geometry specs.

Also look at the Women's bikes & frames which in theory may be designed for longer legs and shorter torsos.

CliffordK

If you do want a new bike, I'd look at something that is very different from what you already have.

Tri/TT specific? 650c wheels?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Felt-D...m/372630969146



I'd look around more. Browse your local Craigslist and classifieds. But, use this as an idea.

base2 

Someone who drank the Kool-aid and found more cost effective ways to blow through cash.

It is an awsome bike though. Seriously.

With 2 20 & 30 mile climbs of 6-12% I'd favor wheel weight over wheel aero. Aero won't mean much in the single digit mph's and how fast do you really want to descend? As fast as possible, I get it, but what's the calculus on this? There is an optimum.

The nominal in my mind would be ENVE 3.4's over a new bike.

Seattle Forrest

What happens if you sit up to sneeze on box section rims? Or to put it another way of you spend 99.9% of a ride not sneezing, so you'll still be faster overall on aero rims vs boxy ones even if you sneeze during the race? Like, when you sit up to sneeze a you'll give up some of the aero gains for a second, but you're still better off than if you hadn't had any aero gains the rest of the time.

CliffordK

What goes up must come down? Although I haven't tried a really fast descent on discs. I will sometime.

Those Zipp wheels are amazingly light. It should be about 890g for the 650c tubular rear disc, and somewhere around 700g for the front.

If one is really going all-out, then one might choose climbing and flat course wheels.

With some luck, one might get a second rear wheel for that TT bike, and still be less than the new Emonda.

Of course, there are also a lot cheaper options out there.

I'm working (or soon to work on) a Planet X frame (most of the bike minus wheels) that I picked up recently, for quite a bit less than that Felt. Even adding wheels and a few upgrades, and it will be quite a bit cheaper than that one.

base2 

My understanding is the gains are asymptotic.

Gains going from box to 35 are great.
From 35 to 55 good.
55 to 80 marginal.

The difference from good to marginal gains don't mean much and really gets into the point of diminishing returns & it's easy to lose the gain for a variety of factors.

Are they good? Yes. The question is: How much better for this application or that & are you disciplined enough to keep the gains.

Pancake Florida is different than Moana Kea. Each would need different wheels for peak performance.

Bah Humbug

Jets are barely heavier than Ardennes. Jet 6 is basically not at all heavier than Jet 4. Same story on the Zipp side. Weight is not an issue for aero wheel anymore, for the most part. Many people ride box section wheels that are HEAVIER than Jets... that's all that needs to be said.

Seattle Forrest

Modern aero wheels handle crosswinds pretty well, too, at least at mid depth.

chicagogal

To the OP: At 140lbs (did I do the math correctly) you are on the small side, which means that losing weight from the bike will have a bigger percentage gain on W/kg than if you were a bigger rider. That said, I too am a smaller rider, but don't notice any difference in my climbing speed with or without an an extra water bottle (500g). Ultimately, unless you have are really reaching a fitness plateau, I think that you can likely make bigger gains with a training plan than with a new bike.

I am not discouraging the purchase of a new bike. I just don't want you to be disappointed if that the new bike doesn't turn you into a faster cyclist.