Realistic max watt increase for Masters sprinter
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Realistic max watt increase for Masters sprinter
Hi Guys,
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
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Hi Guys,
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
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Hi Guys,
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
If you are using watts as a proxy to know if you are getting stronger, then there are better ways to do that, too. Pay attention to your lifts in the gym. Very few people get close to their max possible based on the card genetics has dealt them.
People get stronger the longer they are in track racing. I started in 2009, and in 2017 I was still hitting PBs in the gym and on track to hit PBs on the bike, but I didn't complete my season. Early season numbers were close to previous season bests.
So, yes, it's very possible
#4
aka mattio
worth noting that the amount of watts you make from 10-15 seconds of an effort (or from 15 to 20 seconds into the effort) is a lot lower than your peak power, but determines your max speed a whole lot more.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
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#5
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worth noting that the amount of watts you make from 10-15 seconds of an effort (or from 15 to 20 seconds into the effort) is a lot lower than your peak power, but determines your max speed a whole lot more.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
For me, I busted out a sceptical, but still recorded 2500W on my kickr. My best was 11.8 F200 but to be fair that 2500W was after a kick ass off season where my metrics were all going up. Then life went to poo for my personal sports goals and now I just have to dream of what could have been as I play doting father to my sporting daughter for a while
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#6
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This is right on the money. There's lots of guys waving their things around with high peak wattages that just can't deliver with F200 times. The big boppers that I know don't give a damn about a peak wattage, they're much more preoccupied with 20s power and technique to enhance the repeatability of their efforts.
For me, I busted out a sceptical, but still recorded 2500W on my kickr. My best was 11.8 F200 but to be fair that 2500W was after a kick ass off season where my metrics were all going up. Then life went to poo for my personal sports goals and now I just have to dream of what could have been as I play doting father to my sporting daughter for a while
For me, I busted out a sceptical, but still recorded 2500W on my kickr. My best was 11.8 F200 but to be fair that 2500W was after a kick ass off season where my metrics were all going up. Then life went to poo for my personal sports goals and now I just have to dream of what could have been as I play doting father to my sporting daughter for a while
Our track club have been doing training weekends recently with some benchmarking and it started to open my eyes a little.
There's guys that are low 11/high 10 that are only hitting 1700(?). There's a masters racer who is putting in >2000 who is mid 11s. Even myself, I'm sitting 1600 or so at 80kg and I'm only sitting about 12.
One feedback that did come out of the benchmarking is that the cadence you hit your peak is as important as the peak itself (especially for gearing)
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#7
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Using times in an f200 (trying to compare wattage to expected performance) can also lead you down false rabbit holes. Rolling Resistance, Power meter accuracy/lag, Track surface/steepness, Weather/Heat, Aerodynamics, and of course line through the 200 all have large impacts on finishing time that most people don't account for when comparing times to others. I'm in low 12's, but never peak hit 1k watts on the track.
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I'm starting to agree, I think max wattages are a bit of a misnomer.
Our track club have been doing training weekends recently with some benchmarking and it started to open my eyes a little.
There's guys that are low 11/high 10 that are only hitting 1700(?). There's a masters racer who is putting in >2000 who is mid 11s. Even myself, I'm sitting 1600 or so at 80kg and I'm only sitting about 12.
One feedback that did come out of the benchmarking is that the cadence you hit your peak is as important as the peak itself (especially for gearing)
Our track club have been doing training weekends recently with some benchmarking and it started to open my eyes a little.
There's guys that are low 11/high 10 that are only hitting 1700(?). There's a masters racer who is putting in >2000 who is mid 11s. Even myself, I'm sitting 1600 or so at 80kg and I'm only sitting about 12.
One feedback that did come out of the benchmarking is that the cadence you hit your peak is as important as the peak itself (especially for gearing)
Hmmm...I'd swear that there was some chap preaching for years around here that cadence is the metric to watch (not power)
#9
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#10
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worth noting that the amount of watts you make from 10-15 seconds of an effort (or from 15 to 20 seconds into the effort) is a lot lower than your peak power, but determines your max speed a whole lot more.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
which is to say if i had to choose between a 2000w max with a 1000w 15-second average, and a 1400w max but a 1250w 15-second average - guess which i'd choose? guess which would give me a higher top speed?
you have headroom to increase your max wattage, but if you wanna go faster, focus on *drawing out* your max wattage - doing it for longer.
#11
aka mattio
you know, a bunch of years ago, when i was starting to travel around and race on the national circuit, i said to my old track director, "Hey - what kind of a flying 200 should an enduro like me be capable of?"
he responded, "twelve oh is good. eleven five is better."
anyway, the answer is "it depends" because brawlo can pop off 2500 watts on a kickr and has a 11.8 PR, and my best is right around there but I barely cracked 1100w during that effort.
besides... eleven five is better.
he responded, "twelve oh is good. eleven five is better."
anyway, the answer is "it depends" because brawlo can pop off 2500 watts on a kickr and has a 11.8 PR, and my best is right around there but I barely cracked 1100w during that effort.
besides... eleven five is better.
#12
Senior Member
you know, a bunch of years ago, when i was starting to travel around and race on the national circuit, i said to my old track director, "Hey - what kind of a flying 200 should an enduro like me be capable of?"
he responded, "twelve oh is good. eleven five is better."
anyway, the answer is "it depends" because brawlo can pop off 2500 watts on a kickr and has a 11.8 PR, and my best is right around there but I barely cracked 1100w during that effort.
besides... eleven five is better.
he responded, "twelve oh is good. eleven five is better."
anyway, the answer is "it depends" because brawlo can pop off 2500 watts on a kickr and has a 11.8 PR, and my best is right around there but I barely cracked 1100w during that effort.
besides... eleven five is better.
Power is intensely personal. You can likely talk ballpark figures for a comparison, but the figures that a 60kg whippet in full aero kit are going to be wildly different from someone that is 6'5" on spoked box rims and wearing non-aero club kit
Last edited by brawlo; 09-30-19 at 10:23 PM.
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#13
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Over the last couple of seasons I have been making a conscious effort to improve my position. and I think it's paying off. I'm going faster than ever despite being older and having my gym numbers decline over the past few seasons. I used to pshaw those who said to get low, get narrow, get elbows in-- my heroes have been the monsters of the late 90's early 00's like Arnauld Tournant; that guy was about as aero as a bus, but so powerful. But now I think I'm seeing the dividends of paying some effort there.
#14
aka mattio
heh. you read me to a T. although somebody with WC stripes and some records did tell me that i have a big ol' pursuiter's butt.
yup. jon frahley used to be quite vocal about how the older he got, the faster he got, even though he wasn't putting out any more power. he focused on longer power and refining his position - he rode short cranks and with a long, narrow position and wound up getting fast enough to beat njisane phillip at the lagp.
Over the last couple of seasons I have been making a conscious effort to improve my position. and I think it's paying off. I'm going faster than ever despite being older and having my gym numbers decline over the past few seasons. I used to pshaw those who said to get low, get narrow, get elbows in-- my heroes have been the monsters of the late 90's early 00's like Arnauld Tournant; that guy was about as aero as a bus, but so powerful. But now I think I'm seeing the dividends of paying some effort there.
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Hi Guys,
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
Im about a year in to track cycling, previously raced bmx.
Im mid 40’s having fun, losing weight and getting better.
Im hitting about 1600 watts of peak power at 90kg
What in your experience is a realistic max watt goal?
I know the most watts don’t always win
But just interested at my age if there is still scope to get near 2000?
Thanks
Chris
Really appreciate the guidance and feedback and all that messages
loving this journey, got a long way to go, but getting fitter, lighter and in a better aero position.
Ive noticed dropping body weight has helped a lot, lost a little on the squat but feeler quicker overall
One difference from being a bmx racer is the amount of pedalling and being constant!
it’s hard work but great at the same time and pleased i can hit 210rpm on the watt bike which is better than when i was in my 20’s
Still playing with the gearings, i do naturally feel better at a higher rpm on a smaller gearing (perhaps it’s bmx influence) and now i’m fitter i feel i can maintain it better
I probably will need to get used to a bigger gearing in time
Thanks
Chris
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Glad to see you stoked on this.
A few comments:
First 3 rules to being successful in Masters track racing:
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
I know it sounds stupid, but being heavy (even strong as hell and heavy) isn't as good as being on the average or lean side. Yes, larger leads to better gym numbers and better wattage numbers, but winning races takes more than strength. Being bigger hinders recovery on the bike and in the infield as well as hindering aerodynamics.
With gears that are common these days, you'll never touch 150RPM. So, touching 200 is great...but doesn't really help much. Focus on being smooth at 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, and 140RPM. Like holding those cadences for a several seconds at a time. You'll probably find one that creates an odd resonance that results in butt-bounce. Learn to smooth that out. Chances are you'll have to invoke some different muscles than normal.
A few comments:
First 3 rules to being successful in Masters track racing:
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
I know it sounds stupid, but being heavy (even strong as hell and heavy) isn't as good as being on the average or lean side. Yes, larger leads to better gym numbers and better wattage numbers, but winning races takes more than strength. Being bigger hinders recovery on the bike and in the infield as well as hindering aerodynamics.
With gears that are common these days, you'll never touch 150RPM. So, touching 200 is great...but doesn't really help much. Focus on being smooth at 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, and 140RPM. Like holding those cadences for a several seconds at a time. You'll probably find one that creates an odd resonance that results in butt-bounce. Learn to smooth that out. Chances are you'll have to invoke some different muscles than normal.
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Glad to see you stoked on this.
A few comments:
First 3 rules to being successful in Masters track racing:
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
I know it sounds stupid, but being heavy (even strong as hell and heavy) isn't as good as being on the average or lean side. Yes, larger leads to better gym numbers and better wattage numbers, but winning races takes more than strength. Being bigger hinders recovery on the bike and in the infield as well as hindering aerodynamics.
With gears that are common these days, you'll never touch 150RPM. So, touching 200 is great...but doesn't really help much. Focus on being smooth at 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, and 140RPM. Like holding those cadences for a several seconds at a time. You'll probably find one that creates an odd resonance that results in butt-bounce. Learn to smooth that out. Chances are you'll have to invoke some different muscles than normal.
A few comments:
First 3 rules to being successful in Masters track racing:
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
- Don't be fat.
I know it sounds stupid, but being heavy (even strong as hell and heavy) isn't as good as being on the average or lean side. Yes, larger leads to better gym numbers and better wattage numbers, but winning races takes more than strength. Being bigger hinders recovery on the bike and in the infield as well as hindering aerodynamics.
With gears that are common these days, you'll never touch 150RPM. So, touching 200 is great...but doesn't really help much. Focus on being smooth at 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, and 140RPM. Like holding those cadences for a several seconds at a time. You'll probably find one that creates an odd resonance that results in butt-bounce. Learn to smooth that out. Chances are you'll have to invoke some different muscles than normal.
ha ha yes working on that, seems to be diet mainly for me
Might be a daft question, but is there a target body fat percentage that’s optimal or is it “just don’t be fat” ?
Yeah that makes a lot of sense, I can see the gearings have got a lot bigger.
Is it as simple as squat, power work and bike sprints and bigger gearings and I will transfer the squat to the bike as long as my efficiency is good?
Thanks again
Chris
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You don’t have to watch your weight like hill climbers. Just be generally fit in terms of body fat. It’s not uncommon for cyclists to develop an unhealthy obsession with weight.
Regarding big gears, even smaller riders and juniors are able to do it with training. But you can’t just slap on a 12t cog and expect success. The adaptation period can be a while.
Regarding big gears, even smaller riders and juniors are able to do it with training. But you can’t just slap on a 12t cog and expect success. The adaptation period can be a while.