How you ride a bike
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How you ride a bike
It's more complicated than you think. Should our sense of balance perhaps be considered a sixth sense?
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I try not to think too much when I’m riding a bike.
John
John
#3
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#4
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Years ago to get a discount on motorcycle insurance (or maybe just to get the insurance at all) I had to take a motorcycling safety course. They spent a lot of time on countersteering on curves - a lot of motorcycling accidents that don't involve cars are when the motorcyclist enters a curve at too high a speed, panics and steers into the curve at too high a speed. They even said "Those of you who do a lot of bicycling on hills will have an easier time because you are already doing this on downhills even if you don't know it."
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![](https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/what-the-little-boy-from-the-sixth-sense-looks-like-today/l-intro-1628882463.jpg)
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If anything, I think this video "proves" that is the right approach--the countersteer is automatic essentially, and damn near imperceptible. If you set out to consciously do it after a lifetime of doing it unconsciously, I think there's a huge risk of oversteering.
I've always contended we basically have no conscious knowledge of how we balance under any circumstances including just standing still.
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I learned this way back while attending an ice skating camp as part of referee training. The eyes lead into the turn. The head follows the eyes. The shoulders follow the head, and the rest of the body follows the shoulders. This is equally true in bike riding. As another poster added on this forum, the eyes lead into the turn, identify the apex and then beyond.
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Should our sense of balance perhaps be considered a sixth sense?
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I don't think that counter steering is something we do consciously or unconsciously. We didn't learn it at all either. It's what the bike does naturally because of it's design as it is leaned into a turn.
Perhaps we were unconsciously conditioned by the bike for that and other things.
Perhaps we were unconsciously conditioned by the bike for that and other things.
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In the video- I bet if he just puts all his weight on one pedal, he could lean the bicycle and initiate the turn without countersteering. You cannot do this on a motorcycle at all. That's why they emphasize it so much in motorcycling.
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I'm pretty certain I'm going to give more thought to why someone would make this video than I have ever gave to steering a bike.
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If you ride alongside a tall curb and edge closer and closer until your tires just touch it, then try to turn or lean away from the curb, same result without all the tech. Fall down go boom.
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Because a moto weighs at least 2x what the rider does ( usually more like 3x~4x) It has to be a much more deliberate action than on a velo (bicycle) which is generally 20%-25% of the rider's weight.
Also worth considering is that Motos, when under application of throttle, tend to want to go in a straight line, when riding through a long turn (like an on-ramp) with any kind of intent; you actually have to continue to push away on the inside grip and shift your weight to hold the bike down to stay in the turn.
Because the weight difference is skewed so far the other way, on a velo, the riders inputs are the same, but much more subtle, since a bicycle has roughly 1/25 the mass of a motorcycle, and a tiny fraction of the horsepower.
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My mantra is: Trust my bike and look where I want to go
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Also worth considering is that Motos, when under application of throttle, tend to want to go in a straight line, when riding through a long turn (like an on-ramp) with any kind of intent; you actually have to continue to push away on the inside grip and shift your weight to hold the bike down to stay in the turn.
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It would be interesting to try and ride that bike no handed.
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This is exactly what you do on a motorcycle; you shift your weight forward and to the inside of the turn "bite the inside mirror" was the phrase we used. That, and "push away" on the inside grip to initiate the turn. The physics that govern how a single-track vehicle negotiates a corner are the same, just the mass is different.
Because a moto weighs at least 2x what the rider does ( usually more like 3x~4x) It has to be a much more deliberate action than on a velo (bicycle) which is generally 20%-25% of the rider's weight.
Also worth considering is that Motos, when under application of throttle, tend to want to go in a straight line, when riding through a long turn (like an on-ramp) with any kind of intent; you actually have to continue to push away on the inside grip and shift your weight to hold the bike down to stay in the turn.
Because the weight difference is skewed so far the other way, on a velo, the riders inputs are the same, but much more subtle, since a bicycle has roughly 1/25 the mass of a motorcycle, and a tiny fraction of the horsepower.
Because a moto weighs at least 2x what the rider does ( usually more like 3x~4x) It has to be a much more deliberate action than on a velo (bicycle) which is generally 20%-25% of the rider's weight.
Also worth considering is that Motos, when under application of throttle, tend to want to go in a straight line, when riding through a long turn (like an on-ramp) with any kind of intent; you actually have to continue to push away on the inside grip and shift your weight to hold the bike down to stay in the turn.
Because the weight difference is skewed so far the other way, on a velo, the riders inputs are the same, but much more subtle, since a bicycle has roughly 1/25 the mass of a motorcycle, and a tiny fraction of the horsepower.
Yes, I can lean to the right and then to the left to make a no-hands left turn. But if I begin by leaning right and continue to do so, I'll turn right.
"You're counter-steering, but you don't know it" is a faith-based argument.
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In that scenario, you can't turn the wheel left or right, so that proves absolutely nothing other than you need to turn your wheel some way to execute a turn.
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Maybe it's true. Sometimes I just lean on one grip to start the turn.
Riding so simple a 3 yo can bmx. Ask him to explain. LOL.
youtube.com/watch?v=rYN1atWhIUU
Riding so simple a 3 yo can bmx. Ask him to explain. LOL.
youtube.com/watch?v=rYN1atWhIUU
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#23
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#24
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I've taught a few kids how to ride a bike. I never had to explain to any of them how to turn, and couldn't have if I'd had to. There's got to be some relationship to the skills we need to walk upright that make this instinctive. You definitely don't tell a child how to walk before they start just doing it.
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It's precisely the weight difference that accounts for the fact (obvious to all but motorcyclists, apparently) that a bicyclist can, quote, "push away" on the inside grip to initiate the turn but need not do so. That bicyclists can turn a bike while riding no hands, without touching the grip, should suffice as a counter-argument to the supposed necessity of counter-steering bicycles.
.
.
Undisturbed, the rake and trail of a bike (moto or velo) fork will keep it going forward in a straight line.
To make it turn, you have to change the angle of the front wheel, relative to the vehicle heading AND move the center of 'gravity' to the inside, of the turn, to keep the bike from toppling over.
On a bicycle, the rider makes up roughly 80% of the mass of the bike-rider system, so the systems' CG is pretty close to the CG of the human body (roughly the bellybutton) So all the little weight shifts and self-corrections happen at level and location very close to what you naturally do to keep yourself balanced and upright when standing or walking, so it quickly fades into the subconscious for most people.
This is why some people can ride 'no hands' using only their sense of balance to keep the bike on course.
Now, on a motorcycle, the rider makes up only about 25%-30% of the total mass, and the CG is somewhere near or forward of the rider's knees. Also given the longer wheelbase and higher speed (greater momentum) the riders' control input has to much more deliberate and of a greater magnitude to affect the system. That is why you see MotoGP riders hanging off like monkeys, and criterium riders (the velo equivalent) rarely swinging out more than a knee or elbow.