The game is, name that bike...!
12-07-21, 01:03 PM
#1
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The game is, name that bike...!
Recent acquisition, and since the PO had the bike repainted and left sans decals, I figured it's a chance to play the game: guess the frame! Lugs are pretty interesting, especially the the seat stay/seat tube lug:
Hints provided if needed....
Hints provided if needed....
12-07-21, 01:06 PM
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Seatlug is pure 70s Raleigh Professional
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12-07-21, 01:36 PM
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-----
the Brampton Victor seat lug usually means we are in the anglophone world
lug pattern and crown appear to be one of the iterations of NERVEX professional
this pattern offered with or without cutout and with or without the reinforcing lip on the headlugs
advert dated October 1977
would expect frame to manifest BSC threading and tubing diameters
---
MauriceMoss
-----
the Brampton Victor seat lug usually means we are in the anglophone world
lug pattern and crown appear to be one of the iterations of NERVEX professional
this pattern offered with or without cutout and with or without the reinforcing lip on the headlugs
advert dated October 1977
would expect frame to manifest BSC threading and tubing diameters
---
MauriceMoss
-----
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12-07-21, 02:14 PM
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a one off? british?
12-07-21, 02:25 PM
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12-07-21, 02:56 PM
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FH Scott? Witcomb? Harry Hall?
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12-07-21, 03:24 PM
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roberts? jackson?
12-07-21, 05:13 PM
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Multiple British builders used that style of "shot-in"/fastback stay treatment by this point, so a bit more info (like a serial number) might help narrow things down. Also, some of these builders were making frames for more than one shop, which will complicate things.
At a glance, the mystery frame looks a lot like some of Young's Grandini bikes, like this (apologies about pics of the first frame - those were from an online listing somewhere):
These two examples are slightly different (cable routing above the bb and the top tube cable guides):
As I mentioned earlier, there were other marques that sold somewhat similar looking bikes (like Rory O'Brien, for example).
At a glance, the mystery frame looks a lot like some of Young's Grandini bikes, like this (apologies about pics of the first frame - those were from an online listing somewhere):
These two examples are slightly different (cable routing above the bb and the top tube cable guides):
As I mentioned earlier, there were other marques that sold somewhat similar looking bikes (like Rory O'Brien, for example).
12-07-21, 06:46 PM
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Multiple British builders used that style of "shot-in"/fastback stay treatment by this point, so a bit more info (like a serial number) might help narrow things down. Also, some of these builders were making frames for more than one shop, which will complicate things.
-Gregory
12-07-21, 06:49 PM
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Bill Philbrook. Great looking bike and great price.... I saw the listing,...too big for me, but congrats. I couldn't believe it was up for as long as it was. Had it been my size, I would have made the trip..
12-07-21, 06:58 PM
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Plain Jane Grandini Frame
I'd have to see the underside of the BB to verify Philbrook's "signature", and I've been waiting for that picture to be posted.
12-07-21, 07:32 PM
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Ok you folks got me--- I was just having fun, as it was an unfamiliar name (to me at least).
MauriceMoss nailed it: Grandini! Late 70's or early 80's--- maybe?
I have no idea if is was Philbrook or Roberts who built the frame--- what is the famous chain stay "punch mark" supposed to look like?
This is the pic of the bike as the PO found it, apparently:
Not sure I am in love with the current paint scheme, but I am going to find some decals and ride this bike for a while. It's beautiful, and just my size--- I didn't even have to move the seatpost.
Would love some guidance about the mysterious punch mark.... whoever built this, it is lovely, light and fast.
Thanks all....
MauriceMoss nailed it: Grandini! Late 70's or early 80's--- maybe?
I have no idea if is was Philbrook or Roberts who built the frame--- what is the famous chain stay "punch mark" supposed to look like?
This is the pic of the bike as the PO found it, apparently:
Not sure I am in love with the current paint scheme, but I am going to find some decals and ride this bike for a while. It's beautiful, and just my size--- I didn't even have to move the seatpost.
Would love some guidance about the mysterious punch mark.... whoever built this, it is lovely, light and fast.
Thanks all....
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12-07-21, 07:34 PM
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The longest trip I've ever made for a bike--- it's not in perfect condition, and I'm not sure I love the painted components thing (a bit too match-matchy maybe?). But it's an interesting, beautiful frame.
12-07-21, 07:48 PM
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12-07-21, 08:46 PM
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OK here are the requested pictures. I see what appears to be a small center-punch mark on the drive side of the bottom bracket, off to the side of the serial number "449".
Drive side is to the right of the photo.
Close up of the punch mark.
Look well, O wolves! What say ye?
Drive side is to the right of the photo.
Close up of the punch mark.
Look well, O wolves! What say ye?
12-07-21, 09:11 PM
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Wolf? Hardly...
Out of pure curiosity, could you post a photo or two of the other side, the chainstay aspect, of the BB?
Thank you,
Jackal (On The Good Days), Lucky To Be A Hyena On The Others.
12-07-21, 09:41 PM
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Yeah, I've seen that page--- certainly Philbrook's earlier bikes used more ornate lugs. But perusing the interwebs there seem to be other examples of his work in a far more streamlined, "modern" style, whether for his own marque or work done for other brands.
On that selfsame page there is this interesting comment about the "punch mark" used to identify his work done for other shops/brands:
"Bill was to build for Harry Perry and Ken Bird amongst others but no record of this activity survives. Sands and Bogdanowicz both mention a small punch mark that was placed under the right chainstay to identify frames built for others and this is corroborated by Keith Perry. However, owning a Meridian and a Grandini known to have been built by Bill and a number of other frames which were strong candidates I found none in this location. However, the punch marks do exist but just not in this location but once identified are consistently in the same place providing a eureka moment when discovered."
This seems to make things clear as mud. "the punch marks do exist just not in this location....once identified are consistently in the same place"? (Consistent from day to day?)
If anyone has pictures to share which might illuminate these shadowy realms, I would be grateful.
This bike looks the same as the first of the two pictured here.
On that selfsame page there is this interesting comment about the "punch mark" used to identify his work done for other shops/brands:
"Bill was to build for Harry Perry and Ken Bird amongst others but no record of this activity survives. Sands and Bogdanowicz both mention a small punch mark that was placed under the right chainstay to identify frames built for others and this is corroborated by Keith Perry. However, owning a Meridian and a Grandini known to have been built by Bill and a number of other frames which were strong candidates I found none in this location. However, the punch marks do exist but just not in this location but once identified are consistently in the same place providing a eureka moment when discovered."
This seems to make things clear as mud. "the punch marks do exist just not in this location....once identified are consistently in the same place"? (Consistent from day to day?)
If anyone has pictures to share which might illuminate these shadowy realms, I would be grateful.
This bike looks the same as the first of the two pictured here.
12-07-21, 09:49 PM
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Brits, Am I Right?
...This bike looks the same as the first of the two pictured here.
12-07-21, 10:37 PM
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@MauriceMoss is the ultimate ringer in any “Guess This Frame” game. 
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12-08-21, 06:17 AM
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Thank you one and all--- as always, I am grateful for the wealth of knowledge and experience found here!
N
N
12-08-21, 08:40 AM
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The deep scallop within the seatlug is really cool.
12-08-21, 10:09 AM
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The seat lug is just very cool--- whoever built this bike, they were good. The history I've been able to find suggests that Chas Roberts took over building the Grandini frames from Bill Philbrook.
I'm still hoping to find folks who have bottom-bracket mark pictures of known Philbrook frames. Here's one from the classicrendezvous site's page on Philbrook's work:
Bill Philbrook, Ray Green's
Call me crazy, but I see what looks like the same drive-side punch mark that appears on my frame......
I'm still hoping to find folks who have bottom-bracket mark pictures of known Philbrook frames. Here's one from the classicrendezvous site's page on Philbrook's work:
Bill Philbrook, Ray Green's
Call me crazy, but I see what looks like the same drive-side punch mark that appears on my frame......
12-08-21, 07:50 PM
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I took a stab in the dark. It was in the listing.... I've never seen a Grandini in person, but do own a Chas Roberts. Regardless of the builder its a nice bicycle.
12-09-21, 01:51 PM
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@MauriceMoss is the ultimate ringer in any “Guess This Frame” game.
