Carbon vs alloy wheels
#26
I like the look of Zipps and Enves but the math doesn't work for me. My old Trek Paradigm Comps weigh in at 1600 grams and a nice set of carbon wheels might save 200 grams, thats about $10 per gram. Look at HEDs as they sell lighter alloy rims that potentially make the weight savings worth the cost and their quality is first rate. In all honesty if I skipped a few meals I could shave more weight than buying lighter rims. As stated earlier in a post above carbon rims look great but sometimes alloy rims are the better deal.
Likes For N2deep:
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,521
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Liked 9,462 Times
in
4,673 Posts
Likes For WhyFi:
#28
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,140
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,699 Times
in
1,166 Posts
I upgraded from Mavic Aksium to Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. According to Mavic specifications that was a weight loss of just over 300 g, which I could feel on my first few rides. But after I got used to them, I no longer remembered to keep skipping meals every now and then.
I can buy even lighter alloy wheels but at most those are another 100 g less; so I am with N2deep. I also considered carbon fiber wheels but doubt the aerodynamic advantages outweigh the decreased braking performance on a rim brake bike for me.
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,521
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Liked 9,462 Times
in
4,673 Posts
I meant what I wrote. It's exceptionally common for someone on BF to criticize or rebut the purchase of a lighter XYZ by trotting out the ol' standbys like:
It doesn't take difficult mental gymnastics to conclude that these "solutions" aren't mutually exclusive - one can buy lighter stuff and still retain their ability (and need) to poop.
That the sensation was normalized doesn't mean that the effect was no longer there.
- Lose that weight from your body, instead.
- Only carry one water bottle instead of two.
- Just take a dump before your ride - hur hur hur!
It doesn't take difficult mental gymnastics to conclude that these "solutions" aren't mutually exclusive - one can buy lighter stuff and still retain their ability (and need) to poop.
That the sensation was normalized doesn't mean that the effect was no longer there.
Likes For WhyFi:
#30
Senior Member
I upgraded from Mavic Aksium to Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. According to Mavic specifications that was a weight loss of just over 300 g, which I could feel on my first few rides. But after I got used to them, I no longer remembered to keep skipping meals every now and then.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#33
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,140
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,699 Times
in
1,166 Posts
#34
First problem is the discs - not just the 1-2 pound general weight penalty, but that the weight has to be added to the fork and wheels, due to the braking forces involved. So the fork is considerably heavier and less compliant.
Second problem is the clinchers: at least 200 grams per set extra weight due to the inferior clincher (or tubeless - same thing) rim profile. Tubulars rims are inherently lighter and stronger.
Then there is the tire pressure. Sure, 75psi feels plush, but I'm not a fatty, and bottom line is that 23mm tires pumped above 100psi roll a lot faster, both in terms of rolling resistance and more aero. And the big tires and rims are heavy!
You want a fast and responsive bike for the pavement: the ultimate sweet spot is an team-level road bike from about 5 years ago. Rim brakes, tubular carbon wheels, T1000 carbon frame (before it became almost unobtainable) and 23-25mm tires pumped hard. This bike will sing.
#35
Senior Member
Likes For woodcraft:
#36
Senior Member
Thanks everybody for the useful info you provided. I'm a casual rider of 61 years young, do it mostly for pleasure and health. For this year I have about 7,000 km of distance and 66,000 m of climb. I weight about 87 kg, my current tires are Conti 5000 TL 32mm pumped to max (6 bars) pressure. I think I'll stick with my current wheels for now but will try Conti 5000 TL 28 mm when the current tires wear out. And will take a look at other carbon alternatives to have a better perspective.
I chose fulcrum racing 3 disc brake wheels for my bikes. They're a great value and require no rim strips for tubeless.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-10-21 at 09:42 AM.
#37
Junior Member
I have Orbea Orca carbon bike with SRAM Force eTap AXS and Fulcrum Race 4 wheels. The bike is very comfortable but feels a bit sluggish compared to my other older road bikes. Maybe this is because of heavier disc brakes vs lighter rim ones on the other bikes. Maybe because of 32mm tires with lower pressure vs 25 with higher. I'm wondering would there be a noticeable difference if I upgrade the wheels to carbon like Fulcrum Race Zero? These wheels are quite more expensive - would they be worth it? I'm looking for more sporty ride.
However, my additional response is this: if those new wheels are going to make you happy, then I say do it. Enjoy your passion how you choose!
Likes For Technium92:
#38
Senior Member
One thing not specifically mentioned here. The weight savings between carbon and alloy wheels is (usually) all in the rims, which sits very far outboard on the rotating mass scale. 200g in on the bike probably isn't noticeable, but 200g on the rims? Definitely noticeable.
Same goes for lighter tires.
With carbon wheels, you get both a lighter and more aero rim, so it's a win-win. It probably won't make you any faster, but it sure does feel nice and look cool.
Same goes for lighter tires.
With carbon wheels, you get both a lighter and more aero rim, so it's a win-win. It probably won't make you any faster, but it sure does feel nice and look cool.
Likes For msu2001la:
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 7,213
Bikes: Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Liked 2,049 Times
in
1,160 Posts
Likes For jaxgtr:
#41
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,140
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,699 Times
in
1,166 Posts
Likes For SoSmellyAir:
#42
Senior Member
This is why I don't proof read. 🙂
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
#43
Senior Member
6 bar on a 32 mm tire?? Way over inflated unless you are on glass smooth roads.
Try 4 bar. Then, try 5 bar.
Try 4 bar. Then, try 5 bar.
#44
Senior Member
Find a bike shop that will let you road test some higher end wheels, see if you can tell the difference. Whenever differences are "quantified" by terms like sluggishness, responsiveness, twitchiness, etc I think that is the only way to go.
#45
Senior Member
One thing not specifically mentioned here. The weight savings between carbon and alloy wheels is (usually) all in the rims, which sits very far outboard on the rotating mass scale. 200g in on the bike probably isn't noticeable, but 200g on the rims? Definitely noticeable.
Same goes for lighter tires.
With carbon wheels, you get both a lighter and more aero rim, so it's a win-win. It probably won't make you any faster, but it sure does feel nice and look cool.
Same goes for lighter tires.
With carbon wheels, you get both a lighter and more aero rim, so it's a win-win. It probably won't make you any faster, but it sure does feel nice and look cool.
#46
Does the rim itself actually matter all that much? I have to assume lacing, spokes, spoke tension, etc has a lot of influence on the final wheel too.
#47
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,803
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Liked 1,931 Times
in
1,162 Posts
Surely if you can afford even budget(y) carbon rims you can afford some pretty high end alloy rims too. At the same(ish) price point, can someone quote some weights to compare the real weight benefit of of carbon?
Does the rim itself actually matter all that much? I have to assume lacing, spokes, spoke tension, etc has a lot of influence on the final wheel too.
Does the rim itself actually matter all that much? I have to assume lacing, spokes, spoke tension, etc has a lot of influence on the final wheel too.
aluminum HED Emporia GA Pro 700c wheels, 25mm internal, 24mm deep, 1,625g, $950
carbon fiber Lun Grapid 700c wheels, 25mm internal, 38mm deep, 1,413g, $800
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
BTLOS rims are available at 385 g. The lightest (?) DT Swiss rim is 435 g.
#49
Senior Member
I'd hazard a guess that the increased lateral stiffness is a side-benefit that comes from deeper aero rim shape. IOW, carbon fiber wheels aren't made deeper to solve a stiffness issue, but to improve aerodynamics. If (does?) anyone made a 24mm deep CF box shaped rim, would it be any stiffer than a same sized alloy rim?
#50
he said member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: is everything
Posts: 13,802
Bikes: yes please
Liked 1,951 Times
in
1,207 Posts
Likes For ls01: