wolfchild

The way most people ride is not a full body workout and there is nothing wrong with that. Just ride the way you want to ride.

cjenrick

Track guys use a lot of upper body, climbers do not want a lot of upper body muscle so no weight training like the track freaks.

Ever seen a couple of pro road racers try to duke it out? It is pretty pathetic. There is a YouTube of just such an incident. Hinault could punch alright.

Swimming is supposed to be close to a total body workout. Cross country skiers have a pretty good split between upper and lower muscle use which is one of the reasons for the slightly higher VO2 max over pro riders, there is a greater demand on the cardiovascular system to run all those muscles.

Cycle cross is more of a full body workout, and it is usually done in cold weather. Thus, you have monsters like Wout.

wolfchild

So is mountain biking

terrymorse 

Air density does indeed affect a cyclist's speed. A temperature drop requires a cyclist to produce more power to maintain the same speed. Air density is a nontrivial factor when pushing a cyclist + bike through the air.

Using default settings on Kreuzotter calculator, road bike, hands on drops, @ 22 mph, required power:

@ 80F – 223 Watts
@ 32F – 241 Watts

There's a simple explanation for that: XC skiers use more muscle groups than cyclists. VO2 capacity has three components: lungs, cardiovascular, muscles. For most elite athletes, the limiting factor for VO2 is the capacity of the working muscles to do aerobic work (or so I've read from some sports physiologist whose name I forget).

Those elite XC skiers probably wouldn't do very well against a pro cyclist in a bike race.

rumrunn6

does denser, winter/colder air, have a higher concentration of oxygen
- & does it matter?

PhilFo 

I don’t buy it, unless some other definition of air density is being used. I’m sure rolling resistance, fitness and available oxygen are factored in but just using the meteorological definition of air density and knowing the max variability across the habitable troposphere being less than .5kg/m^3 between 0C and 35C, there is no way to feel the effect over a single ride.

terrymorse 

The facts (speed vs power) say otherwise.

As does Fluid Mechanics 101.

Why temperature, humidity and air pressure are important for the hour record attempts:



Source: Bradley Wiggins's hour record attempt

PhilFo 

I guess because it's on the internet, it must be true.

tomato coupe

No.

genejockey 

"The call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!"

wolfchild

You are completely wrong about this....I can tell you from experience that there is huge big difference between riding at 1F and 75F

genejockey 

Uh, dude? PV still = nRT, last time I looked. So, yes, actually denser air does have a higher concentration of oxygen. Not a higher percentage, but more oxygen molecules per unit volume.

genejockey 

The other week I saw a guy whose saddle was WAY too high. Not only were his hips rocking, so was his whole body. Pedaling seated, from a distance he looked like Pantani dancing on the pedals. I suspect he was getting a full body workout.

PhilFo 

This is true.

genejockey 

What? And risk my health?

tomato coupe

There's more oxygen, but the concentration remains the same -- about 21%.

genejockey 

But of course.

I once got into a longrunning argument with someone who took exception when I said, "There's less air in the air at altitude". He said, there are fewer molecules per unit volume, but just as much air. I asked, "What do you think air is, if not the molecules?"

genejockey 

Concentration is amount per unit volume, not amount per unit mass.
EDIT: I may be being excessively pedantic here. It's not like it never happened before.

tomato coupe

It depends on whether you're talking about absolute concentration or relative concentration. I assumed the question was about the latter, as the former would be a trivial question.

PhilFo 

I understand that you feel like you're right, but your personal anecdote notwithstanding, you're not. If we're going to go there and appeal to authority, I can tell you from experience in a career in the Navy as a meteorologist, that I'm right.
You are correct that there is a huge difference riding between those temperatures, however looking at actual data of the atmosphere and the variance of less than .5kg/cubic meter of water vapor between the temperatures of 0C and 35C, the density of the air does not make a difference alone. Temperature, fitness, humidity, rolling resistance (temperature affects the tires too), albedo of the surface you're riding on, all play a greater role than the miniscule difference in actual air density. The air density is simply a red herring in all these measurements. It comes into play when you start going really fast, speeds a cyclist can't reach.

genejockey 

I'm not sure it IS trivial, in the sense that at altitude the relative concentration of O2 is the same as at sea level, but the lower absolute concentration is what gets you.

Eric F 

Wout Van Aert is tall, but hardly a "monster" in terms of upper body muscle mass.

tomato coupe

It's trivial because, in the case of absolute concentration, the question essentially becomes "Is denser air denser?"

rsbob 

And vice versa.

terrymorse 

Incorrect (again). Wind drag force increases linearly with air density. And wind drag is the dominant force that a cyclist must overcome (for any speed above a dawdle).

Fluid Mechanics 101.