Harold74

I purchased this bike a few months ago and would love to know more about it. It's my first vintage Italian racer and my first Campagnolo bike. I've dug up a fair bit of information about the Zullo company in general but I've not been able to find out much about this specific bike.

Things that I Think I Know

- 58 cm frame.
- Six speed free wheel with friction shifting.
- 27.0 mm seat post.
- First generation Super Record seat post. Tough to adjust with out the special tool but doable.
- Probably Columbus tubing of some variety. Perhaps SP based on the frame size and seat post diameter.
- Most of the group set is labelled Brev International.
- I think that the derailleurs may be Nuovo Record. The rear RD seems to top out with a 23T cog.
- Italian bottom bracket so 70 mm & ISO square tapered spindle.
- Lacquer decals rather than clear coat that do not hold up very well.

Things That I Would Like to Know More About

1) How special or not special is the frame?

2) How special or not special are the components?

3) What is the likely year and model of the bike?

4) What is the likely tube set configuration?

5) Would the paint on the seat post and derailleurs have been OEM or added by a previous owner?

6) Would I be able to remove the pain on the seat post and derailleurs without damaging them?

7) Relative to Shimano projects, what surprises should I expect with Campagnolo components? Special tools required etc?

8) Did he heart shaped lug cutouts serve a manufacturing purpose or is that just fashion? I love them.

9) Would the red paint in the lug cutouts have been OEM or added by a previous owner?

10) Is there a safe way for me to remove all of the decals without damaging the paint? I don't love decals in general.

Thanks for reading / helping.

AdventureManCO 

Wow, that is a really nice bike. I don’t know about the tube set, but that whole package looks very high end.

Regarding the paint on the components, do nothing except clean! From what I’m seeing from the painting and the ‘millium’ on the front and rear derailleur, they may be period modifications and thus have some special historical factor or significance.

AdventureManCO 

Whoops, double post!

Still a nice bike!

unworthy1

I'd say keep it ALL (decrepit decals and all) original and just clean with something mild and apply NON-CLEANER paste-wax...but you're the owner so if you want to strip decals and inlay paints...it's your call.
I think the red paint is original, not sure about who would have milled the NR components and inlaid red/white/blue paint but it you have to them a mild paint remover like Citra Strip probably makes quick work of that without damage to the alloy, BUT wash it all off as soon as possible with soap/water and rinse well.
Decals if not clear-coated maybe are not lacquer-fix but water-slide...you could see how a hairdryer works first before applying any solvents or chemicals.If they are thin vinyl heat (moderate not hot enough to burn!) usually works like a champ.
I agree this probably has at least an SP seat tube if the post is 27.0
Zullo might reply to an email if you want more info, he's a great guy and a master but English is not his forte

EDIT: Just noticed that "S"with wreath on the fork crown: COULD be the fork (and perhaps entire frame) is a Sabatini:
https://classicrendezvous.com/countr...taly/sabatini/
in which case...all bets are off as far as "keeping it original", but more research is needed!

Some geographic trivia: Zullo is based in Verona, up north in the Veneto region; Sabatini was building (until 1987) in Perugia, south of Florence/Firenza so these two were not neighbors, probably never crossed paths except maybe at a trade show.
And nice as a Zullo is (I'm a fan) no idea why anybody would choose that marque to "counterfeit"

randyjawa 

In my world, that Zullo would be a top level find. Well done and keep us updated.

Robvolz 

wow, a ZULU came into a local co-op and I got the call to place a value to it.

I hadn't heard of it. I really need to buy Andrea's poster. All Campy with some Zeus mixed in.

I'll post some pics.

Sabatini good? Other fellow bad? or both good?

Harold74

Yeah, I assumed that too and was banking on that helping me ID the bike. Dressed up for the Olympics or some event in France or something... No such luck.

smd4

History - Zullo Bike (zullo-bike.com)

Harold74

I'm not sure. Is that really a thing? That would suck something fierce. All that I can find for markings is a bit under the shift cable at the bottom bracket as shown below.. The sequence seems kind of short to be a serial number but what do I know?

On a related note, any idea why one would have these vent hole things in the bottom bracket? Weight? Drainage? Inspection? Less drag on the cables? It seems like it would weaken the bottom bracket but, then, I don't suppose that kind of flex is a large contributor to overall flex.

Harold74

To my eye, that marking matches the marking on the Campagnolo (I hope) seat post. So I took the fork marking to be an expression of the frame builder's intent that this be a Campagnolo equipped bike.

Was I right to assume that "S" indicates super record? Like I said, I'm a Campagnolo virgin so I've a lot to learn on that front.

Harold74

Thank you, all, for your help thus far. The service here at C&V kicks ass. If I did my own work so well I'd be loaded.

Robvolz 

sounds like 1978 is the first year they sold frames under their own brand. That tracks with the SR RD marked, PATENT 78.

obrentharris 

A nice mystery. The milling on the derailleurs and seat post are icing on the cake. This sort of work was commonly done to add a little customization and also for a very slight weight reduction.

It was not at all unusual for the name or logo of the frame builder to be engraved in the seatpost, stem, chainrings, even crank arms.

I think the possible Sabatini frame with Zullo decals actually makes the bike more interesting. One possibility, though an unlikely one as mentioned above, is that the frame was built by Sabatini for sale by Zullo. Another possibility is that the owner of the bike raced on a team that was sponsored by Zullo and had his bike painted accordingly. This also was not uncommon. The fork, as mentioned above, could also be a replacement.

Most bikes of this caliber were sold as a frameset with the buyer deciding which components to install. Components were often moved from frame to frame. So components do not give us a reliable indication of the original configuration of the bike.

We will need someone to chime in here with a deeper understanding of the minute details of frames built by Zullo and Sabatini, perhaps @MauriceMoss.
Brent

purpurite

Don't. Touch. The. Decals.

Harold74

Okay, so the hypothesis is that the "S" on the fork and the "S" on the seat post may be the same "S", both possibly indicating Sabatini.

The bike caries the sticker below which, ostensibly, is a retailer's sticker. It indicates that the bike was purchased at the -- now non-existent -- International Cycling Centre in Calgary Alberta who specialized in European Lightweights.

Would that reduce the likelihood that the bike belonged to a Zullo sponsored racer in the late 70's?

Harold74

Color me convinced. All plans to remove the decals have been suspended. Thanks for the input.

obrentharris 

Yes. I very much doubt that Zullo ever sponsored a team in North America. I suppose there is the remote possibility that International Cycling Center sold the bike used.
Brent

Chuckk

Here's the previous owner of International Cycling Center in Calgary.
Maybe he would know
https://www.alignable.com/san-antonio-fl/vo2max-cycles

Zullos have a Z on their forks

Harold74

Thank you very much for that insight. With the workday over, I finally got around to combing through the link that you posted. What I see is this:

1) The "S" logo definitely seems to be indicative of Sabatini.

2) Some Sabatinis have the same, heart shaped lug patterning as my bike..

3) I've not been able to find any Zullos with the heart shaped lug patterns.

The pic below is of a Sabatini. That's my frame verbatim.

So.... do we like Sabatinis? This is the first I've heard of them.

The link also indicated that most of the Sabatinis that were sent to Canada were not paid for. I hope that the Zullo paint job was not done as a way to hide them from their rightful owner(s) or the authorities.

unworthy1

Yes, we like both Zullo and Sabatini, but I think this frame is a Sabatini in Zullo's clothing which is quite weird. Not that it casts any shade on the high quality of the frame, just hard to nail down the provenance.
The marque that I most associate with that "strap" on the BB shell (and they used it on a couple different BB shells BITD) was...wait for it...
Pinarello.
Which only muddies the water even more!
Paging MauriceMoss , help us Mr. Wizard!

Harold74

A blurb from @unworthy1's link shown below which has me concerned that the provenance of my bike may actually be theft or, at the least, breach of contract.

MauriceMoss

This one is sending all sorts of mixed signals.

At first glance the fork and the frame do seem to belong together, although it's somewhat odd that the crown would be pantographed but nothing else on the frame would.

For a Zullo of around this period I would expect more pantographing (both on seat stay caps and the bottom bracket), not to mention a Z within a wreath (not an S) like this:







Sure, it could be a contract build, but then why the Zullo decals? The frame just doesn't look like a Zullo to me, based on the features I can see.


As for the pantos on the mystery frame, while similar the two aren't identical. The version on the seat post (with the longer wreath) is a match to Sabatini. Here is a comparison of the mystery frame's pantos to the Sabatini crown (from Classic Rendezvous):




The 'Sabatini' panto can also sometimes be seen on Scanabissi frames, too:



(Scanabissi also had yet another version of an S within a wreath with an even longer wreath)


It can get a little confusing with how close (or identical) pantos on Italian bikes can be. It's actually not that rare to even see two different brands of bikes with the same panto, especially if it's a simple one (like a single letter). I'm not sure if this was due to a contractor offering bikes to different shops, with a certain set of panto options, or a pantographer offering a certain set of panto options to multiple builders.


Anyway, I wouldn't assume based on the fork crown panto that this frame was initially labeled "Sabatini" or that it was made by Franco Sabatini, either. As a side note, according to this obit, Franco started building bicycle frames in 1973 but might have been more into motorcycles judging by his involvement in the organization of the Milan-Taranto vintage bike re-enactment race.


I think it would help to see more detailed pictures of the fork crown reinforcement tang (with the heart cutout), the brake bridge reinforcement tang (with the other heart cutout) and of the seat cluster.

MauriceMoss

Based on what I can see (and can hopefully be confirmed by additional pics), my money would be on this frame being made by Gino Milani.

Most of his frames have the heart cutouts on the fork crown and brake bridge reinforcement tangs, almost always have that reinforced chainstay bridge and very often have the 'strap' cable guide on the bb shell. This would be the link to Pinarello in unworthy1 's excellent observation, since a number of Pinarellos were made by Milani. On to the pics.



Crown reinforcement tang:







Milani was fond of these bottom bracket cable guides, regardless of the bb shell used:







Brake bridge reinforcement tang:






Chainstay bridge:







And just for good measure, here are some of the same features on Milani-built Pinarellos:

Harold74

MauriceMoss thanks for you help with this and for responding to your Batman-esque summons. Requested photos below. I'm seeing reinforcement tang heart cutouts on the brake bridge and the inside of the fork blades (news to me). Nothing on the bottom bracket.


Fork viewed from interior.

Upper seat post cluster

Brake bridge.

Lower seat post cluster.

Harold74

Being in Sabatini mode late last night I dug of\\up a couple of Sabatini "comparables" that exhibited frame detailing similar to what we see on my frame. Links:

Mark Pounder's Pista
Bobbiker's bike

Of particular interest is the yellow slot above the Mark Pounder bottom bracket. My bike has an identical slot albeit not contrast painted. In fact, everything about my bottom bracket cluster seem identical to the one on the Mark Pounder bike. Perhaps that's a standardized area than frame builders purchased externally.


Bobbiker's bike.

Mark Pounder's Pista.