does 3x require more shifting than 2x?
#151
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,217
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 2,543 Times
in
1,435 Posts
When looking at 1x, one important difference between mtb and road is that there are good reasons beyond the drivetrain itself for 1x on an mtb.
For FS designs, having a more consistent chain line (talking vertically, here) helps a lot in terms of tuning suspension behavior under pedaling load.
Also, not having to design the linkages around a FD is a big plus, especially on mini-link designs.
And finally, it allows designs for fatter tires and shorter chainstays with 29” wheels.
For FS designs, having a more consistent chain line (talking vertically, here) helps a lot in terms of tuning suspension behavior under pedaling load.
Also, not having to design the linkages around a FD is a big plus, especially on mini-link designs.
And finally, it allows designs for fatter tires and shorter chainstays with 29” wheels.
#152
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4570 Post(s)
Liked 5,107 Times
in
3,152 Posts
Wel ... if you are one of the best MTB riders in the world ... then of course, ride what the rest of the best ride.
I don't try to buy or build a TdF-style road bike because it would not benefit me. The gearing, the riding position .... I would not get any benefits except while sipping coffee while others admired my bike.
The whole "it's what the pros ride, therefore it must be the best" is pure garbage. We each need bikes which suit our abilities, our preferred riding styles .... shoot, take a racing hardtail MTB and try doing North-Shore or freeride riding and watch the frame snap. Even the F/S bikes used in UCI-sanctioned MTB races wouldn't cut it on a downhill course ... which is why the downhill pros ride ridiculous 50-lb. rigs with a foot of travel at each end.
But wait .. if that is what the best ride, why don't you ride one? Because it doesn't suit you as well as what you do ride.
Pretty much all of us with many decades of riding experience have mad e the same choice ... because we don't ride with our egos any more ... we come here to wave our egos around ... but out on the road or trail, the ride is a personal thing and most of us are too old and wise, or old and tired, to play childish games miles from home on roads or trails.
Please try to understand that no one is saying your personal choices are wrong ... and none of the rest of us have made wrong choices either. We are different people and we have made different choices.
I don't try to buy or build a TdF-style road bike because it would not benefit me. The gearing, the riding position .... I would not get any benefits except while sipping coffee while others admired my bike.
The whole "it's what the pros ride, therefore it must be the best" is pure garbage. We each need bikes which suit our abilities, our preferred riding styles .... shoot, take a racing hardtail MTB and try doing North-Shore or freeride riding and watch the frame snap. Even the F/S bikes used in UCI-sanctioned MTB races wouldn't cut it on a downhill course ... which is why the downhill pros ride ridiculous 50-lb. rigs with a foot of travel at each end.
But wait .. if that is what the best ride, why don't you ride one? Because it doesn't suit you as well as what you do ride.
Pretty much all of us with many decades of riding experience have mad e the same choice ... because we don't ride with our egos any more ... we come here to wave our egos around ... but out on the road or trail, the ride is a personal thing and most of us are too old and wise, or old and tired, to play childish games miles from home on roads or trails.
Please try to understand that no one is saying your personal choices are wrong ... and none of the rest of us have made wrong choices either. We are different people and we have made different choices.
I fully understand that some people would still prefer to ride their older 3x mtb. It’s hard to get away from C&V on BF!
What some people are saying is that 1x MTBs are just a fad and that is complete nonsense.
#153
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4570 Post(s)
Liked 5,107 Times
in
3,152 Posts
Triple disappeared today and that I am well aware of. You will have no new bike offered with a triple or unless you want to do your own build à lacarte, buy a frame and buy an older transmission groupset from the previous years. But as you are so much fond of new tech,you would rather buy the new 1*12
Yes I am fond of new mountain bike tech. Contrary to your earlier presumption, I have been riding mountain bikes since the 90s and of all bike types, MTBs have improved the most dramatically in the last couple of decades. Have you even ridden a current mtb to compare with your 90s bikes?
#154
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
Most new mountain bike frames won’t even take a 3x drivetrain, not that I would do that anyway.
Yes I am fond of new mountain bike tech. Contrary to your earlier presumption, I have been riding mountain bikes since the 90s and of all bike types, MTBs have improved the most dramatically in the last couple of decades. Have you even ridden a current mtb to compare with your 90s bikes?
Yes I am fond of new mountain bike tech. Contrary to your earlier presumption, I have been riding mountain bikes since the 90s and of all bike types, MTBs have improved the most dramatically in the last couple of decades. Have you even ridden a current mtb to compare with your 90s bikes?
#155
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,490 Times
in
1,286 Posts
That's really ironic to say. Since majority of amateur cyclists try to imitate what the pros do, this is especially true for roadies.....Bikes, clothing, the kit, nutrition, training methodology of the pros are being imitated and followed by non-pros.
#156
Super-duper Genius
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 984 Times
in
508 Posts
Yes I did. I have ridden a 2016 Lapierre Pro Race with 27.5 wheels (13.5kilos) and a 2016 Trek Stache9 back in 2019 with 29 wheels (12.8kilos), I didn't like the geometry and the weight. They were much heavier than my mountain bikes and didn't offer the same level of acceleration. For comparison my jamis is 11.8kilos , my Kona 10.4kilos and my Scapin 10.4kilos. I don't like heavy bikes when something is supposed to be light, then is should be light. Carrying around dead weight is never fun, especially on a sporty trail ride. I prefer a classic traditional sloping geometry and 26 inch wheels on a MTB which assure me a sure and confident ride
I guess if you’re just doing sporty trail rides where you don’t need the stuff offered on today’s bikes, weight might be the most important factor. If you look at what many folks are doing with their bikes these days, it’s easy to see why a bit of extra weight is not considered such a problem.
Likes For Broctoon:
#157
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,577
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7681 Post(s)
Liked 3,572 Times
in
1,880 Posts
I understand the joy of a light XC-type of MTB .... and so long as your trails are not too demanding , your skills are sharp, and you are really ift, you can do a lot with a really light, low-travel XC-type bike.
My 26" (I know, dinosaur technology) Rize has 140 mm front suspension and 100 rear .... and it is amazing how much more i can do with it. having that much travel means that the bike does a lot more work as I am able to do less, and I can still clear obstacles. With 80 mm one needs to be exceedingly precise ... with 140, the shock sucks up some error. Two pounds of extra weight wouldn't slow me down as much as missing my marks and hitting, instead of clearing, and obstacle.
It is not impossible that i will drop over 100 pounds of fat and gain 20 or 30 of lean muscle, and then in the process get back the heart and lungs I once had ... but I am not holding my breath.
Again ... each should ride the ride that works for each, IMO.
My 26" (I know, dinosaur technology) Rize has 140 mm front suspension and 100 rear .... and it is amazing how much more i can do with it. having that much travel means that the bike does a lot more work as I am able to do less, and I can still clear obstacles. With 80 mm one needs to be exceedingly precise ... with 140, the shock sucks up some error. Two pounds of extra weight wouldn't slow me down as much as missing my marks and hitting, instead of clearing, and obstacle.
It is not impossible that i will drop over 100 pounds of fat and gain 20 or 30 of lean muscle, and then in the process get back the heart and lungs I once had ... but I am not holding my breath.
Again ... each should ride the ride that works for each, IMO.
#158
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4570 Post(s)
Liked 5,107 Times
in
3,152 Posts
Yes I did. I have ridden a 2016 Lapierre Pro Race with 27.5 wheels (13.5kilos) and a 2016 Trek Stache9 back in 2019 with 29 wheels (12.8kilos), I didn't like the geometry and the weight. They were much heavier than my mountain bikes and didn't offer the same level of acceleration. For comparison my jamis is 11.8kilos , my Kona 10.4kilos and my Scapin 10.4kilos. I don't like heavy bikes when something is supposed to be light, then is should be light. Carrying around dead weight is never fun, especially on a sporty trail ride. I prefer a classic traditional sloping geometry and 26 inch wheels on a MTB which assure me a sure and confident ride
As for mtb geometry, I find modern bikes night and day better on demanding trails. This is reflected in modern XC race courses, which are far more technical than 20 years ago.
#159
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
So a few extra kilograms of weight totally negates the benefits of full suspension, disc brakes, tubeless tires, a dropper seatpost, etc?
I guess if you’re just doing sporty trail rides where you don’t need the stuff offered on today’s bikes, weight might be the most important factor. If you look at what many folks are doing with their bikes these days, it’s easy to see why a bit of extra weight is not considered such a problem.
I guess if you’re just doing sporty trail rides where you don’t need the stuff offered on today’s bikes, weight might be the most important factor. If you look at what many folks are doing with their bikes these days, it’s easy to see why a bit of extra weight is not considered such a problem.
#160
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
I understand the joy of a light XC-type of MTB .... and so long as your trails are not too demanding , your skills are sharp, and you are really ift, you can do a lot with a really light, low-travel XC-type bike.
My 26" (I know, dinosaur technology) Rize has 140 mm front suspension and 100 rear .... and it is amazing how much more i can do with it. having that much travel means that the bike does a lot more work as I am able to do less, and I can still clear obstacles. With 80 mm one needs to be exceedingly precise ... with 140, the shock sucks up some error. Two pounds of extra weight wouldn't slow me down as much as missing my marks and hitting, instead of clearing, and obstacle.
It is not impossible that i will drop over 100 pounds of fat and gain 20 or 30 of lean muscle, and then in the process get back the heart and lungs I once had ... but I am not holding my breath.
Again ... each should ride the ride that works for each, IMO.
My 26" (I know, dinosaur technology) Rize has 140 mm front suspension and 100 rear .... and it is amazing how much more i can do with it. having that much travel means that the bike does a lot more work as I am able to do less, and I can still clear obstacles. With 80 mm one needs to be exceedingly precise ... with 140, the shock sucks up some error. Two pounds of extra weight wouldn't slow me down as much as missing my marks and hitting, instead of clearing, and obstacle.
It is not impossible that i will drop over 100 pounds of fat and gain 20 or 30 of lean muscle, and then in the process get back the heart and lungs I once had ... but I am not holding my breath.
Again ... each should ride the ride that works for each, IMO.
#161
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4570 Post(s)
Liked 5,107 Times
in
3,152 Posts
#162
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
#163
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4570 Post(s)
Liked 5,107 Times
in
3,152 Posts
#164
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
#165
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,217
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 2,543 Times
in
1,435 Posts
pads.
Likes For Kapusta:
#166
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times
in
671 Posts
#167
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,461
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8383 Post(s)
Liked 9,275 Times
in
4,556 Posts
With Hydraulic disc brakes you need to do it probably not with mechanical disc brakes. Just read the Bike Radar article How to often bleed Shimano disc brakes and the Evo article on it How often to Bleed Shimano Disc Brakes , Bike Radar recommends to do it every year and Evo recommends to do it every 6 months. How much time does it take you to change your disc brake pads?
I keep extra pads on hand and I can swap a set of pads in a couple of minutes if I need to before a ride. I don't know if it's faster than swapping rim brake pads but it's pretty close.
Likes For big john:
#168
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,222
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 2,030 Times
in
1,149 Posts
guess it depends on the manufacturer and model -
but changing disc brake pads on many Shimano disc brake models is easier than replacing a water bottle cage ...
pull the small cotter pin - remove the pad axle (screw driver or small hex) - replace the pads
but changing disc brake pads on many Shimano disc brake models is easier than replacing a water bottle cage ...
pull the small cotter pin - remove the pad axle (screw driver or small hex) - replace the pads
Last edited by t2p; 09-24-23 at 07:26 AM.
#169
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,461
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8383 Post(s)
Liked 9,275 Times
in
4,556 Posts
#170
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,577
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7681 Post(s)
Liked 3,572 Times
in
1,880 Posts
Wait a minute here,.
Firs toff, changing pads has Nothing to do with bleeding brakes. It is like brushing teeth and brushing hair ... probably good to keep up with maintenance on both, but in no way connected. (Also, @Big_John and t2p make some powerful points, above.)
Changing brake pads on Any bike is pretty simple, and I speak from experience, not ignorance and fear.
So … if you were standing on two legs, you are hopping now.
Further, in an act of blinding hypocrisy, you say:
And: [QUOTE=georges1;23024451 Most people won’t feel comfortable changing disc brake pads and the possibility of having to bleed a hydraulic disc brake system, and will need maintenance assistance. [/quote] Oddly enough, it seems Magura hydros, like any other hydro brakes … MUST BE BLED OCCASIONALLY.
Rim or disc, Magura brake systems need to be bled.
Also, did you poll hydro brake users and ask them what they thought about bleeding?
I assume a lot of them bleed their own brakes … and my assumption has zero basis in research---Exactly the same as yours.
In any case … so , once a year people take their bikes to the shop at the start of the season gfor a basic tune-up. Big freaking deal. A lot of people I know---racers, not just riders---don’t do their own work because they ride and race, not wrench. They Could, but they choose not to.
Bleeding brakes is not complicated... compared to, say, setting up a front triple and a multi-cog rear derailleur to run silently in every gear, and both can be done one step at a time and done successfully by anyone smart enough to tie shoes. Tell me you don’t tune your front derailleur …
This isi more BS.
Nobody makes rim-brake specific suspension forks, so you aren’t saving any weight there. And as for frames … nobody makes rim-specific frames, so you … just Made Up some numbers. That is not even funny.
Are Some modern MTBs heavier than older ones? Yes, and some are lighter.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-...kaAq-dEALw_wcB
Weight: 9.27kg (20 lb, 7 oz)
My Rize with massive suspension weighs a little more than my first suspended MTB (front suspension) by a couple pounds and more than my second (F/S) by a little bit. My front-only KHS weighed about the same as the rigid MTBs I had ridden previously. My rigid Bridgestone MB-4 weighed about 30 pounds … rigid, Deore 3x8, rim brakes, Cro-Mo …..
This F/S (yes, Full Suspension) Orbea (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/o...z-review-2023/) weighs 11.6 kg. Less than your Jamis, and the Orbea has twice the front travel, plus a rear shock … and discs.
The Specialized Epic World Cup (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/s...p-review-2023/) has 100-120 mm front travel and 75 mm rear travel …. Full Suspension and disc brakes at 10.5 kg ….. about opn par with your much less able old bikes.
Basically if you want to spend the cash you can have a 22-lb. mountain bike. This was always the case. The differenc e is that now that 22-lb bike can have 100 mm of travel and disc brakes. Or not … your choice.
I am not putting down your old-school MTBs. For me they would be awesome bikes. They are way outdated … short travel, probably steeper geometry than is popular nowadays … but great bikes.
Nor am I bashing 3x … in fact I have been defending 3x For Certain Riders throughout this thread.
What I am here for, is TRUTH.
The Truth is … you can buy disc hardtails which weigh the same as your bikes, and offer more performance potential to some riders. (Maybe not to your specific riding style, but I have addressed that repeatedly, too.) You can be freak Full Suspension disc bikes which weight the same as your old-school bikes.
I have said Repeatedly that we each need the bikes which suit our style.
For some reason, everyone comes here generalizing and basically distorting fact, saying Their particular style of rising and preference in bikes is better.
That is Crap. I have argued against Mr. Hski (who I respect sincerely) and I will argue against you on this point: Do YOUR Thing. Do not tell me I Must or Should do Your thing.
Your bikes are super---the best For You. Don’t try to say they are ”The Best.” Explain why You like them and how they serve Your needs, without pretending the whole world needs to agree with you.
You have a stable of really beautiful bikes there. I would be proud if I owned them (though I am no longer fit enough (and possibly never was skilled enough) to use them to their full potential.) They are beautiful and functional bikes which suit you quite well, you claim (and I am not disputing that claim.) Just stop trying to pretend they are the categorical, in-every-situation, BEST. They are the best For You. In part they are the best for you because you like them the best.
You may not believe it now, but it is possible that someday you will come across a disc-brake XC hardtail which excites you the way your old bikes do. What then?
Anyway … I don’t care, the weather is beautiful and I am going to go for a ride … on a 2x 11-speed, and who cares what any of you thinks about it.
Firs toff, changing pads has Nothing to do with bleeding brakes. It is like brushing teeth and brushing hair ... probably good to keep up with maintenance on both, but in no way connected. (Also, @Big_John and t2p make some powerful points, above.)
So … if you were standing on two legs, you are hopping now.
Further, in an act of blinding hypocrisy, you say:
Rim or disc, Magura brake systems need to be bled.
Also, did you poll hydro brake users and ask them what they thought about bleeding?
I assume a lot of them bleed their own brakes … and my assumption has zero basis in research---Exactly the same as yours.
In any case … so , once a year people take their bikes to the shop at the start of the season gfor a basic tune-up. Big freaking deal. A lot of people I know---racers, not just riders---don’t do their own work because they ride and race, not wrench. They Could, but they choose not to.
Bleeding brakes is not complicated... compared to, say, setting up a front triple and a multi-cog rear derailleur to run silently in every gear, and both can be done one step at a time and done successfully by anyone smart enough to tie shoes. Tell me you don’t tune your front derailleur …
Nobody makes rim-brake specific suspension forks, so you aren’t saving any weight there. And as for frames … nobody makes rim-specific frames, so you … just Made Up some numbers. That is not even funny.
Are Some modern MTBs heavier than older ones? Yes, and some are lighter.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-...kaAq-dEALw_wcB
Weight: 9.27kg (20 lb, 7 oz)
My Rize with massive suspension weighs a little more than my first suspended MTB (front suspension) by a couple pounds and more than my second (F/S) by a little bit. My front-only KHS weighed about the same as the rigid MTBs I had ridden previously. My rigid Bridgestone MB-4 weighed about 30 pounds … rigid, Deore 3x8, rim brakes, Cro-Mo …..
This F/S (yes, Full Suspension) Orbea (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/o...z-review-2023/) weighs 11.6 kg. Less than your Jamis, and the Orbea has twice the front travel, plus a rear shock … and discs.
The Specialized Epic World Cup (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/s...p-review-2023/) has 100-120 mm front travel and 75 mm rear travel …. Full Suspension and disc brakes at 10.5 kg ….. about opn par with your much less able old bikes.
Basically if you want to spend the cash you can have a 22-lb. mountain bike. This was always the case. The differenc e is that now that 22-lb bike can have 100 mm of travel and disc brakes. Or not … your choice.
I am not putting down your old-school MTBs. For me they would be awesome bikes. They are way outdated … short travel, probably steeper geometry than is popular nowadays … but great bikes.
Nor am I bashing 3x … in fact I have been defending 3x For Certain Riders throughout this thread.
What I am here for, is TRUTH.
The Truth is … you can buy disc hardtails which weigh the same as your bikes, and offer more performance potential to some riders. (Maybe not to your specific riding style, but I have addressed that repeatedly, too.) You can be freak Full Suspension disc bikes which weight the same as your old-school bikes.
I have said Repeatedly that we each need the bikes which suit our style.
For some reason, everyone comes here generalizing and basically distorting fact, saying Their particular style of rising and preference in bikes is better.
That is Crap. I have argued against Mr. Hski (who I respect sincerely) and I will argue against you on this point: Do YOUR Thing. Do not tell me I Must or Should do Your thing.
Your bikes are super---the best For You. Don’t try to say they are ”The Best.” Explain why You like them and how they serve Your needs, without pretending the whole world needs to agree with you.
You have a stable of really beautiful bikes there. I would be proud if I owned them (though I am no longer fit enough (and possibly never was skilled enough) to use them to their full potential.) They are beautiful and functional bikes which suit you quite well, you claim (and I am not disputing that claim.) Just stop trying to pretend they are the categorical, in-every-situation, BEST. They are the best For You. In part they are the best for you because you like them the best.
You may not believe it now, but it is possible that someday you will come across a disc-brake XC hardtail which excites you the way your old bikes do. What then?
Anyway … I don’t care, the weather is beautiful and I am going to go for a ride … on a 2x 11-speed, and who cares what any of you thinks about it.
#171
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,577
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7681 Post(s)
Liked 3,572 Times
in
1,880 Posts
Also … Canyon Lux …. 10.22 lbs … 100 mm travel front and rear
https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/c...p-review-2023/
Giant Anthem (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/g...m-review-2022/) and Scott Sparks RC (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/s...c-review-2022/) in the 11.5 range ….
Thes e are Full-Suspension with half again the travel of your old-school bikes (100-120 mm up front, ….. most have dropper seat posts, they have discs, which do offer greater power and modulation and work better in bad terrain discs (mud and water, for instance … ) and because of modern tech, they are stiffer, stronger and as light as your less well-equipped older bikes.
I wouldn’t buy one …. More bike than I need, and I like my old Rize (with its 26” wheels … ) and thast bike offers we more than I can use. Maybe your old bikes give you as much as you can use … isn’t that perfect?
But whatever you say … there are some awesome MTBs out there which are as light and as effective as your old-school stuff.
And I haven’t even really looked at hard tails …..
See … I don’t need to dump on the rest of the world just because I love my stuff. I am fine admitting that there are better cars than my 2004 Civic … though, to me, it is the Best Car in the World. I have no issue admitting that there are better bikes than any of my stable … though of course, my bikes are the best int eh World … For Me.
I am glad that there is all the new tech, which can do stuff the old tech just could not do. And where is suits me better, I am glad I still have that old tech.
I am not one of the crazy C&V folks, extolling the virtues of downtube friction shifting … I am not that far gone (j/k, folks … ) I won’t give up my brifters for anything …..
https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/c...p-review-2023/
Giant Anthem (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/g...m-review-2022/) and Scott Sparks RC (https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/s...c-review-2022/) in the 11.5 range ….
Thes e are Full-Suspension with half again the travel of your old-school bikes (100-120 mm up front, ….. most have dropper seat posts, they have discs, which do offer greater power and modulation and work better in bad terrain discs (mud and water, for instance … ) and because of modern tech, they are stiffer, stronger and as light as your less well-equipped older bikes.
I wouldn’t buy one …. More bike than I need, and I like my old Rize (with its 26” wheels … ) and thast bike offers we more than I can use. Maybe your old bikes give you as much as you can use … isn’t that perfect?
But whatever you say … there are some awesome MTBs out there which are as light and as effective as your old-school stuff.
And I haven’t even really looked at hard tails …..
See … I don’t need to dump on the rest of the world just because I love my stuff. I am fine admitting that there are better cars than my 2004 Civic … though, to me, it is the Best Car in the World. I have no issue admitting that there are better bikes than any of my stable … though of course, my bikes are the best int eh World … For Me.
I am glad that there is all the new tech, which can do stuff the old tech just could not do. And where is suits me better, I am glad I still have that old tech.
I am not one of the crazy C&V folks, extolling the virtues of downtube friction shifting … I am not that far gone (j/k, folks … ) I won’t give up my brifters for anything …..
Likes For Maelochs:
#172
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,217
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 2,543 Times
in
1,435 Posts
With Hydraulic disc brakes you need to do it probably not with mechanical disc brakes. Just read the Bike Radar article How to often bleed Shimano disc brakes and the Evo article on it How often to Bleed Shimano Disc Brakes , Bike Radar recommends to do it every year and Evo recommends to do it every 6 months. How much time does it take you to change your disc brake pads?
I have never timed a pd change. It’s so little time, don’t even know why I would. But after having changed countless V-Brake, mechanical disk, and hydraulic disc pads, I can say this:
For a mechanical disc, the time is a wash with doing v-brakes. Not much time either way. Level of expertise is about the same.
For hydro it is actually faster and simpler, as there is usually nothing to readjust* as hydraulic disc brakes for bikes (as with autos) are self adjusting. This is also why you never need to do any adjustments on hydros between pad changes, unlike mechanical disc and mechanical rim brakes.
* this is somewhat model dependent. Most (like Shimanos) are dead easy and do not need readjustment. Some other brakes have very tight pad/rotor tolerances and may require some realignment after a pad change.
As far as bleeding frequency, that also varies by model. Shimano probably could be bled each year if you use them a lot (though few people ever do this, and do not have problems) Others, like Magura, essentially never need to be bled for maintenance purposes, as the fluid stays very clean. Bleeding Shimanos is actually pretty easy. I’ll take it over having to adjust cantis any day.
Anyway, this is as much as I feel like debating this with someone who has zero experience or knowledge about disc brakes on a thread not even about disc brakes. Let’s go back to arguing about reflectors.
Likes For Kapusta:
#173
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,251
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3550 Post(s)
Liked 3,708 Times
in
1,859 Posts
Likes For terrymorse:
#174
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,577
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7681 Post(s)
Liked 3,572 Times
in
1,880 Posts
I included the link ... but I would say that given the rest of the thread, and particularly given the wieghts being discussed in the past few posts, that a unit-of-measurement error seems indicated.
I am sure there are bikes weighing ten pounds and less ... not sure adults could ride them.
I am sure there are bikes weighing ten pounds and less ... not sure adults could ride them.
#175
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,217
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 2,543 Times
in
1,435 Posts
Likes For Kapusta: