Crane Bell - clear coating ?
#1
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Crane Bell - clear coating ?
Hiya Folks,
I've been using a Crane bell for a while and it's great, but I have it mounted on the stem and it's the natural point to hold the bike
when I'm walking on a pavement etc. Predictably this tarnishes the brass bell dome quite quickly.
So I'm thinking how about a clear coat on the dome ? I've got some DecoArt DuraClear gloss varnish (polyurethane) that I've used
on most things. But I haven't tried clear coating brass before.
Anybody have a suggestion for what to use, or think this is a bad idea ?
Obligatory picture:
I've been using a Crane bell for a while and it's great, but I have it mounted on the stem and it's the natural point to hold the bike
when I'm walking on a pavement etc. Predictably this tarnishes the brass bell dome quite quickly.
So I'm thinking how about a clear coat on the dome ? I've got some DecoArt DuraClear gloss varnish (polyurethane) that I've used
on most things. But I haven't tried clear coating brass before.
Anybody have a suggestion for what to use, or think this is a bad idea ?
Obligatory picture:
#2
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The bells get polished 2x/yr.
If the bell is not completely coated, then the interface or edge my allow for tarnish or corrosion to occur, especially under the washer of the nut.
P1050236 by Patrick Boulden, on Flickr
If the bell is not completely coated, then the interface or edge my allow for tarnish or corrosion to occur, especially under the washer of the nut.
P1050236 by Patrick Boulden, on Flickr
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#4
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Yep, I am concerned about changing the glorious tone.
I'll try some Pledge then
Apparently polyurethane laquer is well known for sealing brass, but paint stripper will remove it.
I'll try some Pledge then
Apparently polyurethane laquer is well known for sealing brass, but paint stripper will remove it.
#6
My Crane bell is fine without clear coat
#7
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https://sax.co.uk/blogs/news/does-it...part-2-lacquer
The part that I like is
When put to a blind test, it was really difficult to tell the difference between lacquered and unlacquered saxophones
So it looks like laquering a Crane Bell isn't going to affect the sound to a noticeable degree.
#8
I believe they have a lacquer of some kind from the factory. Eventually that will wear down. I didn’t like the uneven spotty appearance that resulted, so I just went the opposite direction of the OP and stripped the lacquer. Now the brass naturally tarnishes evenly. I am fine with that; in fact I prefer it to the shiny look. Just another option.
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#9
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Nicely done, a quick search gives the following info on laquering Saxophones
https://sax.co.uk/blogs/news/does-it...part-2-lacquer
The part that I like is
https://sax.co.uk/blogs/news/does-it...part-2-lacquer
The part that I like is
When put to a blind test, it was really difficult to tell the difference between lacquered and unlacquered saxophones
So it looks like laquering a Crane Bell isn't going to affect the sound to a noticeable degree.(Waiting to see how many posts until someone comes up with a clever "more cowbell" reference.....)
#10
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More research, this time on cymbals:
From https://www.finishing.com/214/83p2.shtml
So it looks like lacquering a bell shouldn't affect the sound too much.
From https://www.finishing.com/214/83p2.shtml
Applying lacquer. Do this if you want the cymbal to look as close to showroom new as it can get. Once you have the cymbal thoroughly cleaned you can apply a very light coat of lacquer then slow buff it after it has dried.. We have experimented with a number of lacquers and found a fast drying, hard finish lacquer that can be slow buffed and does not affect the brilliance of sound of the cymbal.
And that's from George Lawrence, drummer for PocoSo it looks like lacquering a bell shouldn't affect the sound too much.
#11
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I have a copper crane bell that's going on my next bike build (saddle also has copper rails/rivets. I'm hoping that it will tarnish green with time. Probably some sort of coating (or low copper content) will prevent that from happening though.
#12
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From Merriam-Webster
verdigris
nouna green or greenish-blue poisonous pigment resulting from the action of acetic acid on copper and consisting of one or more basic copper acetates
So you should be able to create it youself, and sure enough there's instructions on the web:
https://www.frugalfamilytimes.com/20...-green-patina/
Obvously try it on something else first
#13
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Thanks. I've read about using diluted white vinegar to green up copper bells, but am not sure if there is a coating on top. Your tarnishing experience says not (all my other Crane bells are annodized black).
#14
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I seem to have found a solution, and I can't hear any difference in the bell tone.
I tried polyurethane varnish but it didn't want to stick to the brass.
Then I got some of this: Rustins Metal Lacquer
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._title_o00_s00
Two coats of that and a ride later:
You can see the hand muck on the surface, but it just wipes off - no need to polish it
I tried polyurethane varnish but it didn't want to stick to the brass.
Then I got some of this: Rustins Metal Lacquer
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._title_o00_s00
Two coats of that and a ride later:
You can see the hand muck on the surface, but it just wipes off - no need to polish it
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I wanted a more patina'd bell for an equally scruffy looking bike, so I took the last one I bought apart and put the dome in one of the cat's litter boxes for a few days. After cleaning it, it looked "right" for the bike.
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#16
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Then I got some of this: Rustins Metal Lacquer
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._title_o00_s00
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._title_o00_s00
Wondering how it goes on chrome?
#17
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According to the product info it should work on chrome:
- Has excellent adhesion on chrome, brass, copper and silver.
Last edited by Aardwolf; 08-15-22 at 12:10 AM. Reason: typo
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#18
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Update: got a new Crane Suzu for my 'new' Holdsworth Cyclone.
I was struck by how long the sustain was, and fell in love with the sound again
More importantly it gave me a chance to compare a lacquered bell with a factory fresh one.
My lacquered bell definitely had less sustain, which sort of makes sense.
So I'm removing the lacquer and polishing back to clear brass, maybe I'll try some wax (or not).
I was struck by how long the sustain was, and fell in love with the sound again
More importantly it gave me a chance to compare a lacquered bell with a factory fresh one.
My lacquered bell definitely had less sustain, which sort of makes sense.
So I'm removing the lacquer and polishing back to clear brass, maybe I'll try some wax (or not).
#19
Stop reading my posts!
as a cymbal player I accepted the "common knowledge" that you NEVER polished a good bronze cymbal (Zildjian A or K, Paiste, Sabian, Constantinople, etc.) and if you DID then you could expect jeers and a much lower sale price if you ever put that (vintage collectible cymbal) on the market.
But even tho many "quality" cymbals are made from billets of "bell-bronze alloy" they rely on the lathed-in ridges (well, most did until the kids decided "rude" un-lathed cymbals were cool) and therefore they don't produce those crashing/pinging/chipping "cymbal sounds" the same as a BELL makes a bell sound.
So it WAS permitted to clean the grime out of those concentric lines to let a really dirty cymbal "breathe" but polishing to make 'em shiny? Or spray them with ANY kind of clear coating?
NO!
But even tho many "quality" cymbals are made from billets of "bell-bronze alloy" they rely on the lathed-in ridges (well, most did until the kids decided "rude" un-lathed cymbals were cool) and therefore they don't produce those crashing/pinging/chipping "cymbal sounds" the same as a BELL makes a bell sound.
So it WAS permitted to clean the grime out of those concentric lines to let a really dirty cymbal "breathe" but polishing to make 'em shiny? Or spray them with ANY kind of clear coating?
NO!
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-17-23 at 12:29 PM.
#20
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Worked with handbells for some time--only the "old" production lacquered the bells, as it was deemed that it was counter-productive to good sound. The outsides were, therefor, polished periodically (~1x/12-16 months). The ridged [lathe finished] insides were never touched for it would more greatly effect the tuning. Because the bells could only be effectively tuned a few times before cracking set in from use, the above rule was used. Clean, but not polish the insides.
I have owned several Suzu bells (brass only--I would kill for a bronze version). They are, indeed, lacquered from the factory--pure acetone easily flakes/removes it when applied with a cotton ball. I prefer the natural patina, and they can be returned to high-polish easily, once the lacquer is removed. As with bronze/copper, you can easily set in a uniform patina by wiping the surface with a mixture of salt water and vinegar. Make sure you neutralize/rinse it off when it hits what you want. I had a lovely Suzu that developed a webbed red patina all by itself, but it has since moved on to another owner.
Horns/etc definitely DO come in lacquered options, but it's usually done for student instruments as a means of prolonging the looks. For instruments such as those, good timbre is a secondary concern to durability.,
I have owned several Suzu bells (brass only--I would kill for a bronze version). They are, indeed, lacquered from the factory--pure acetone easily flakes/removes it when applied with a cotton ball. I prefer the natural patina, and they can be returned to high-polish easily, once the lacquer is removed. As with bronze/copper, you can easily set in a uniform patina by wiping the surface with a mixture of salt water and vinegar. Make sure you neutralize/rinse it off when it hits what you want. I had a lovely Suzu that developed a webbed red patina all by itself, but it has since moved on to another owner.
Horns/etc definitely DO come in lacquered options, but it's usually done for student instruments as a means of prolonging the looks. For instruments such as those, good timbre is a secondary concern to durability.,
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#21
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#22
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Brasswind instruments (trumpets, trombones, tubas, etc.), can be lacquered brass, raw brass, or plated (silver, gold, nickel) brass. For the record, saxophones are reed instruments, and not part of the brasswind family. Although brasswind instruments do resonate, the cymbal analogy is probably much better. BITD, nitrocellulose lacquer was used, and was not very durable. Modern instruments are clear coated with baked-on epoxy.
I doubt that clear coating a bicycle bell would deaden the sound enough that anyone would notice. I put a Velo-Orange brass bell on one of my bikes a couple of years ago. Pretty sure it’s clear-coated because it’s still as shiny as when it was new. VO bells are also a little larger than the Crane equivalents, and not embossed with any lettering, which I really like.
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#25
Stop reading my posts!
FWIW Zildjian cymbals have a 'light polyurethane solution'.
https://youtu.be/mAfd-in2WaE?si=c4a8KqmdGaKuvviu
https://youtu.be/mAfd-in2WaE?si=c4a8KqmdGaKuvviu
But I'd add that all MY Zildjians are either "plain A" or "K" and
AFAIK they never had any (PU, nitro-lac or whatever) coatings applied and if they did that dissipated pretty quickly attested to by the patina they developed.
Note that the examples featured in this vid are "A Custom" which look to have a "brilliant (polished) finish" which could be why Zildjian sprays them with the "light PU coating".
Or could be they do that now with everything they make for Quality Assurance.
But if I was buying say a brand new "K" I would not want ANY coatings on that, light or not!
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