Gatri

I'm posting this in C&V because it seems to be the forum with the most Brooks Saddle threads.

I've been considering the purchase of my first brooks saddle and a guy at my LBS recommended the B17 Imperial that he uses. I've read many posts on the forums that suggest that many people don't find cut-out saddles necessary, but are there any disadvantages to having it? I'm thinking that it might be better to have it and not need it rather than buy the regular B17, and then wish that I had bought the Imperial.

I have a Selle San Marco Rolls which I find a little uncomfortable on longer rides. This could be just because I don't ride often enough, but I'm thinking that a cut out saddle might be a little more comfortable.

Narhay

I have a imperial pro and a couple regular B17s. I don't notice any difference to be honest other than the pro is harder than the b17.

rhm

There are a few issues.

The cutout weakens the structure of the saddle. The weakened leather is more prone to stretching and deflecting, so doesn't support the rider as well.

To counter the weakness brought by the cutout, it is common to lace the skirts together. This fundamentally changes the structure of the saddle.

On the normal, uncut leather saddle, if you push down on the top (by, say, sitting on it) the leather at the top goes down, and the sides flare out. They can't flare out very far, though, because the rider's legs are there. This has the effect of distributing the rider's weight over a larger area than just the top.

With the cutout, obviously, there's less support on the top; the idea is to not put pressure in a sensitive area. So if that part of your body is sensitive, due to prostate enlargement or whatever, this may make sense. But lacing the skirts together prevents the skirts from flaring out and doing their share of supporting the rider. So the rider's weight is concentrated on a smaller area. Some riders like this; some don't.

A separate issue is that the weakened leather top will not last as long as an intact one.

davester

I've had a number of Brooks saddles (mostly Pros), and on long rides had suffered disconcerting numbness of the important areas with all of them. Two years ago I picked up a B-17 Imperial and it is the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. The dreaded numbness is gone. I agree with rhm that the saddle appears to be less robust than the non-cutout saddles, but given the massive comfort advantage I could care less. Also note that just in general the B-17 is cut from thinner leather than the Pro, so that contributes to both comfort and shorter life.

FargoRider

I ride a B17 Flyer on my daily commuter, and have a B17 Imperial on my Fuji carbon road bike. I like them both, but the Imperial is much lighter. The Imperial is plenty "stiff" and very well built with thick leather. I don't ride my Fuji as much as my commuter, but I'm not worried one bit about how long the Imperial will last.

gugie 

I have both types. The Imperial was more comfortable for the first few hundred miles, but has broken down faster. The standard B17 is now more comfortable to me.

My favorite saddle is a Brooks re-leather by @rhm. It has much thicker leather than a new Brooks, broke in about the same time as a B17, but should last much longer due to the thick leather.

Salamandrine 

Funny thing. Everyone always says a B17 has thinner leather than a Pro. I have a couple B17's and a Pro, so I measured mine. The Pro has thinner leather. It's harder leather, but it's thinner. The difference isn't much, but it is there.

To the OP:

If you can, try a regular B17 as well. A lot of people have them so if you can borrow a bike do it. I've never tried a B17 Imperial with a cutout and I can't say what those are like, but a broken in regular old B17 is pretty dang good. It basically disappears - like floating on a cloud. Of course every butt is different. It may not fit you. The drawback is that there's kind of a lot of saddle there, and when and if you get down in the drops to go fast or fight a headwind, your stuff can get kinda squished. If you're mostly on the tops cruising and touring etc, they are very nice.

top506

FWIW:
I'm a B17 fan-the B17 on my Motobecane is the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden, bar none. Another B-17 that's moved from bike to bike as required is second.
A B17 Imperial was offered up here for a good price and I jumped on it. The first time I rode it I developed chafing on my inner thighs. The former owner had laced it tight enough for the skirts to flare outward. I've unlaced it While I try to figure out how to fix it.

Top

Gatri

Thanks for your responses everyone. I think that I'll have to find a shop that has both saddles in stock next time I visit the city. I won't be able to try them where I live because the LBS doesn't stock them. Brooks saddles also seem to be pretty easy to sell, so if I find that I've made the wrong choice, I can always sell it.

Bill1960

Replying to an old thread.
I was almost ready to give up on the B17 standard (no cutout). I had the seat nose adjusted slightly upward to prevent sliding forward, but this also caused perineal pressure.
However after around 2000km the seat is slowly molding to my sit bones and I can have the seat nose angled a bit lower without sliding forward, and without perineal pressure.
Seat height and fwd/aft measurements all within usual bike fit recommendations.

Sierra

Another vote for the Imperial from me.
I have both versions of the B17 on various bikes.
The cutout on the Imperial seems to make the saddle a bit more flexible which makes it more comfortable for me.

Wildwood 

Love zombie threads. Missed it before. Now I know why @rhm was so hesitant to modify a bunch of saddles for me. Selle Anatomica is most comfortable for me out of the box.

I had them cut for a little extra comfort for this 72yo man. Not concerned if saddles last me only 20 years or a lifetime (which could be fewer years). Spreading the miles over many bikes/saddles means 'breaking them in' takes forever.




The B17 is now mounted, but with few miles. Very subjective initial impression = is better (for me) than std B17. I have narrow sitbones, but could not pass on the Amazon special for $85usd.

"Slash" is from RHM, a most comfortable perch.

Standard factory Selle Anatomica.


On 'modern' bikes I generally run 'modern' saddles with split rails or deeper depressions.

ascherer 

B17 is super comfortable for me but I get numb after 15 miles or so. B17 Imperial helps with that. I have two bikes with C17 Carved saddles and I'm beginning to think I prefer them.

merziac

Incremental adjustments can be critical, especially when your backside isn't cooperating.

And I know this goes against the grain but you can loosen the tension a bit to help speed up the process by getting your backside a little more on board.

You have to remember to tighten it back up but you can do it a little at a time so the saddle stays in shape for the long haul.

This brings up another key element, your backside has to also "break in" to the Brooks and it evolves over time, small adjustments may be needed for a long time to get there.

Chombi1 

I've also heard about the Imperials stretching out a bit too much for some people.
Based on that, it would be good if you are on the lighter side......

wschruba

Imperials can get "pinchy" if you're not wearing a chamois. Rider beware

repechage

The cutout saddles do make sense, on the image that I did not delete in the quote, I note the saddle not perfectly aligned with the bike. I do that just a tad but to the other side, humans are not symmetrical. My right leg is a smidge shorter, my right foot a bit smaller and heels in, toes out. That helps, found by accident when the bike fell over 48 years ago and the seat post moved. No tool to realign, but I noticed the improvement right away. Huh.
Standard from then on.

Wildwood 

No, just photo angle maybe, or sloppiness. Maybe a tolerant crotch? Who knows.

repechage

there is evidence of an impact RH rear of saddle. Considering the brake lever inboard rotation, made the assumption that things were by Design.

albrt 

I'm a fan of B-17 narrow and recently tried an Imperial. I can't say I notice much difference. Both types of saddle have always been more comfortable for me on long rides than any other type of saddle, right from day 1 without breaking in. The B-17N that I've had the longest is probably near 2000 miles, and it doesn't really seem much different from the newer ones. I know 2000 miles isn't much by some people's standards.

I bought an '82 Trek with a Brooks pro, I think it was the guy's only bike and he bought it new in '82. That was a broken-in saddle. It didn't sag much, but it has a distinct ridge in the middle from squeezing cheeks. It did not look comfortable to me so I took it off and put a different saddle on that bike.

I mostly use Selle Italias or comparable on especially light bikes, but otherwise I just keep buying more Brookses every time I see one used.

merziac

We keep having these threads so I'll say it again, I have the luckiest butt on the forum.

I can ride any Brooks I find, old, new, sad, broken in or not, Pro, Team, Special, B17, sprung, not, Imperial, Cambiums too, probably have 25-30.

Have them on all my bikes, no proper C+V doesn't IMO.

Wildwood 

everything is by Design. Maybe even the sloppiness. an ordered life is the sign of a rigid mind.

NVFlinch 

^^^^
This. All my saddles are leather with a cutout. I have an asymetrical pelvis, and the cutout allows my right side to drop a bit more than the left, giving me relief from chafing on the R side. Also less pressure on the soft bits. Of course it will be another couple weeks/months before I can ride again: fractured pelvis from being hit by a cargo van. But I do have bar tape on my walker handles!

Chombi1 

One advantage that the Imperial Brooks saddle has over other non slotted saddles is, the open slot on the leather cover makes it really easy to .mount and adjust it on seatposts with double bolts on top of the rail clamp like the Campy NR. As you can easily get to the two allen bolts through the slot opening with an allen wrench.

repechage

‘that is a product concept, offer it through the medical supply store.