Innicycle threaded to threadless converter
#26
Full Member
just so there's no question about WHAT the slippage is that I'm talking about.
the "steerer" tube is tightened as the upper race/headset and is tight -------- doesn't move. the cap then tightens in from the top, no issue with slippage with the headtube, in the alum finish I might add, not powd ct'd in a color. only the stem, when slipped over top and tightened at the desired ht does the STEM slip/move side to side hoiz around if pulled enough after tightening and the bar intact. the issue I see is the texture of the steerer tube shouldn't allow the stem to slip/rotate around the st tube when tightened. most steerer tubes on forks have dull/matte finishes in the alum or CF. once they are tight enough, rotation ONLY happens with a LOT of pressure, such as an impact.
I'm thinking the best approach is a locktight or light spray glue to the surface. otherwise, it may be tight enough with normal riding ---------- I'm more concerned about the torque when turning with vibration and higher speeds.
anyone else had the issue I have with the "rotating" stem once tight with the bar installed and putting pressure on it?
the "steerer" tube is tightened as the upper race/headset and is tight -------- doesn't move. the cap then tightens in from the top, no issue with slippage with the headtube, in the alum finish I might add, not powd ct'd in a color. only the stem, when slipped over top and tightened at the desired ht does the STEM slip/move side to side hoiz around if pulled enough after tightening and the bar intact. the issue I see is the texture of the steerer tube shouldn't allow the stem to slip/rotate around the st tube when tightened. most steerer tubes on forks have dull/matte finishes in the alum or CF. once they are tight enough, rotation ONLY happens with a LOT of pressure, such as an impact.
I'm thinking the best approach is a locktight or light spray glue to the surface. otherwise, it may be tight enough with normal riding ---------- I'm more concerned about the torque when turning with vibration and higher speeds.
anyone else had the issue I have with the "rotating" stem once tight with the bar installed and putting pressure on it?
#27
Senior Member
just so there's no question about WHAT the slippage is that I'm talking about.
the "steerer" tube is tightened as the upper race/headset and is tight -------- doesn't move. the cap then tightens in from the top, no issue with slippage with the headtube, in the alum finish I might add, not powd ct'd in a color. only the stem, when slipped over top and tightened at the desired ht does the STEM slip/move side to side hoiz around if pulled enough after tightening and the bar intact. the issue I see is the texture of the steerer tube shouldn't allow the stem to slip/rotate around the st tube when tightened. most steerer tubes on forks have dull/matte finishes in the alum or CF. once they are tight enough, rotation ONLY happens with a LOT of pressure, such as an impact.
I'm thinking the best approach is a locktight or light spray glue to the surface. otherwise, it may be tight enough with normal riding ---------- I'm more concerned about the torque when turning with vibration and higher speeds.
anyone else had the issue I have with the "rotating" stem once tight with the bar installed and putting pressure on it?
the "steerer" tube is tightened as the upper race/headset and is tight -------- doesn't move. the cap then tightens in from the top, no issue with slippage with the headtube, in the alum finish I might add, not powd ct'd in a color. only the stem, when slipped over top and tightened at the desired ht does the STEM slip/move side to side hoiz around if pulled enough after tightening and the bar intact. the issue I see is the texture of the steerer tube shouldn't allow the stem to slip/rotate around the st tube when tightened. most steerer tubes on forks have dull/matte finishes in the alum or CF. once they are tight enough, rotation ONLY happens with a LOT of pressure, such as an impact.
I'm thinking the best approach is a locktight or light spray glue to the surface. otherwise, it may be tight enough with normal riding ---------- I'm more concerned about the torque when turning with vibration and higher speeds.
anyone else had the issue I have with the "rotating" stem once tight with the bar installed and putting pressure on it?
Which stem are you using on your innicycle and what are you torquing the bolts to? Is there still a gap at the split in the stem clamp or has it bottomed out? If not already bottomed, have you tried going a 'precise smidge tighter' as BMC_Kid describes?
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#28
Am I correct then in my understanding that when tightened a little more (16 ft-lb rather than N-m), the slippage is no longer a problem?
I am contemplating changing quills in my older bikes (at least 2, may be 3) this winter and I do not want to add something for esthetics that comes with a few added headaches. 😉
I am contemplating changing quills in my older bikes (at least 2, may be 3) this winter and I do not want to add something for esthetics that comes with a few added headaches. 😉
#29
Senior Member
Am I correct then in my understanding that when tightened a little more (16 ft-lb rather than N-m), the slippage is no longer a problem?
I am contemplating changing quills in my older bikes (at least 2, may be 3) this winter and I do not want to add something for esthetics that comes with a few added headaches. 😉
I am contemplating changing quills in my older bikes (at least 2, may be 3) this winter and I do not want to add something for esthetics that comes with a few added headaches. 😉
1. slippage of the innicycle quill within the threaded steerer tube: A few customers have mentioned either needing to use additional torque (15 ft.*lbs. or so, versus the 15 N*m stated in the install video) on the top cap or carbon paste on the quill to have it locked to their satisfaction. I've also made some small changes recently to the cone to aid in its ability to expand the quill for a tighter lock. I expect this issue to be resolved with that change, as rare it was to hear about it.
2. slippage of the threadless stem on the innicycle steerer tube: This one is brand new to me as of cycledog1 mentioning it. Just browsing Amazon, there are a LOT of threadless adapters out there with the majority having no texture, and most of those having a bright, nearly-polished finish as well. A few have some texture and notably Nitto makes an adapter with a knurled finish. I also have a bunch of forks in my office in steel, aluminum, and carbon, and only one of those has anything nearing what I would consider texture (a Trek Domane fork). I'm still willing to accept that the finish on the innicycle is causing the slippage he's seeing, but then I'd also bet that a different stem wouldn't have that issue either.
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#30
Junior Member
ritchey WCS. I put the thompson on, its not as snug for obvious reasons. the bolts are as tight as possible.
as you can see, the installs are clean, to anyone thinking of using one. I still have grease oosing out the the crack. mine didn't come with the special rubber bolt cap, but this one isn't a rain bike ------- my all weather bike is my allroad disc with fenders, so this lemond doesn't intentionally see rain. I'll let you know what I use to lock'er down, locktight is the most common market item as accessible anywhere, so will keep you posted.
'99 Lemond Zurich retromoderned with 6700 and now converted from the quil to the innicycle headset/steerertube conversion.
the innicycle headset/steerertube conversion from the former quill stem.
as you can see, the installs are clean, to anyone thinking of using one. I still have grease oosing out the the crack. mine didn't come with the special rubber bolt cap, but this one isn't a rain bike ------- my all weather bike is my allroad disc with fenders, so this lemond doesn't intentionally see rain. I'll let you know what I use to lock'er down, locktight is the most common market item as accessible anywhere, so will keep you posted.
'99 Lemond Zurich retromoderned with 6700 and now converted from the quil to the innicycle headset/steerertube conversion.
the innicycle headset/steerertube conversion from the former quill stem.
#31
Junior Member
There are two slippage issues that have been brought to my attention over the years (amongst hundreds of problem free installs FWIW):
1. slippage of the innicycle quill within the threaded steerer tube: A few customers have mentioned either needing to use additional torque (15 ft.*lbs. or so, versus the 15 N*m stated in the install video) on the top cap or carbon paste on the quill to have it locked to their satisfaction. I've also made some small changes recently to the cone to aid in its ability to expand the quill for a tighter lock. I expect this issue to be resolved with that change, as rare it was to hear about it.
2. slippage of the threadless stem on the innicycle steerer tube: This one is brand new to me as of cycledog1 mentioning it. Just browsing Amazon, there are a LOT of threadless adapters out there with the majority having no texture, and most of those having a bright, nearly-polished finish as well. A few have some texture and notably Nitto makes an adapter with a knurled finish. I also have a bunch of forks in my office in steel, aluminum, and carbon, and only one of those has anything nearing what I would consider texture (a Trek Domane fork). I'm still willing to accept that the finish on the innicycle is causing the slippage he's seeing, but then I'd also bet that a different stem wouldn't have that issue either.
1. slippage of the innicycle quill within the threaded steerer tube: A few customers have mentioned either needing to use additional torque (15 ft.*lbs. or so, versus the 15 N*m stated in the install video) on the top cap or carbon paste on the quill to have it locked to their satisfaction. I've also made some small changes recently to the cone to aid in its ability to expand the quill for a tighter lock. I expect this issue to be resolved with that change, as rare it was to hear about it.
2. slippage of the threadless stem on the innicycle steerer tube: This one is brand new to me as of cycledog1 mentioning it. Just browsing Amazon, there are a LOT of threadless adapters out there with the majority having no texture, and most of those having a bright, nearly-polished finish as well. A few have some texture and notably Nitto makes an adapter with a knurled finish. I also have a bunch of forks in my office in steel, aluminum, and carbon, and only one of those has anything nearing what I would consider texture (a Trek Domane fork). I'm still willing to accept that the finish on the innicycle is causing the slippage he's seeing, but then I'd also bet that a different stem wouldn't have that issue either.
problem solved - the issue DID turn out to be slippage of the innicycle quill within the threaded steerer tube. I was sure it was as tight as could be reasonalby expected, but there was more to be done and THAT WAS the slippage afterall, not the stem. big relief.
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#32
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Hiya, got a bit of a project going on, eyeing the inni headset. Thing is, also need to replace the fork. Frame steerer tube is 170mm, how long should the fork steerer column be? Cheers.
Or other way to ask: what's the stack height of the inni headset cups?
Or other way to ask: what's the stack height of the inni headset cups?
Last edited by cantiger; 04-08-24 at 02:50 AM.
#33
Senior Member
Since you asked, the stack height of the lower cup is 12.4 mm and the upper is 14.6 mm but those numbers don’t translate into anything useful for gauging fork length given the design. It does give you an idea of how much adjustment you’ll have for your threadless stem, though.
#34
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The easy answer to your question comes from the installation specs: your fork should be 27-45 mm longer than your headtube. So in your case (and assuming you meant headtube not steerer tube on your frame), you’ll want a steerer tube that’s 197-215 mm long. Given that you have the option, I’d say shoot for 210 mm plus or minus a few.
Since you asked, the stack height of the lower cup is 12.4 mm and the upper is 14.6 mm but those numbers don’t translate into anything useful for gauging fork length given the design. It does give you an idea of how much adjustment you’ll have for your threadless stem, though.
Since you asked, the stack height of the lower cup is 12.4 mm and the upper is 14.6 mm but those numbers don’t translate into anything useful for gauging fork length given the design. It does give you an idea of how much adjustment you’ll have for your threadless stem, though.
Since the fork is this Crust's Lightning Bolt one (can't post links yet with under 10 posts) i'll go with the 202mm version then. (Next longer would be 232mm).
Now if only those Nitto tall stack stems wouldn't be quite so scarce.
#35
Senior Member
Oh, headtube of course, my bad, thanks for the swift reply. Thought I'd seen the figures somewhere when watching the video a few days ago but couldn't find back where it was.
Since the fork is this Crust's Lightning Bolt one (can't post links yet with under 10 posts) i'll go with the 202mm version then. (Next longer would be 232mm).
Now if only those Nitto tall stack stems wouldn't be quite so scarce.
Since the fork is this Crust's Lightning Bolt one (can't post links yet with under 10 posts) i'll go with the 202mm version then. (Next longer would be 232mm).
Now if only those Nitto tall stack stems wouldn't be quite so scarce.
The 202 mm version will do it. Alternatively, you could use the next size up and cut off the excess. They have plenty of threads for that per the description.
Crust has worked with me in the past on my thru axle conversion kits. Unlike some manufacturers, they were open to my questions and recognized that more options are better for their customers than less. I'd love to show them their fork with an innicycle conversion headset.
Tall stack stems work a treat with this headset. Good luck finding one! Maybe try one of these: https://velo-orange.com/products/vo-...stem-31-8-rise
#36
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This fork?
The 202 mm version will do it. Alternatively, you could use the next size up and cut off the excess. They have plenty of threads for that per the description.
Crust has worked with me in the past on my thru axle conversion kits. Unlike some manufacturers, they were open to my questions and recognized that more options are better for their customers than less. I'd love to show them their fork with an innicycle conversion headset.
Tall stack stems work a treat with this headset. Good luck finding one! Maybe try one of these: [snip]
The 202 mm version will do it. Alternatively, you could use the next size up and cut off the excess. They have plenty of threads for that per the description.
Crust has worked with me in the past on my thru axle conversion kits. Unlike some manufacturers, they were open to my questions and recognized that more options are better for their customers than less. I'd love to show them their fork with an innicycle conversion headset.
Tall stack stems work a treat with this headset. Good luck finding one! Maybe try one of these: [snip]