Why are Modern Bikes So Expensive?
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...labeling some point you specifically requested, as nonsensical, without further discussion, is an essential tactic of the semantic blowhard. It passes for enlightened discussion in these threads though. So enjoy. I'll hope that, at the very least, we've put the whole "(These are serious questions that I’d like you to address, rather than dismiss with some pithy remark)" thing to bed. As already stated:
... why go into this digression ? You and I both know it's in hope of finding something else you can tease out of my reply to use as another avenue of attack. Why not just find another outlet ?
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...I would like to say I understand the motivation here, but I don't. To me it seems like some sort of personality disorder related to the internet and penis size. But I'm not a disinterested observer. I'm a refugee who feels threatened. *snork*
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It's always fun when people who can't let it go accuse other people who can't let it go of not being able to let it go.
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Aerodynamics is not a question of GROUND SPEED, it's a question of AIR SPEED. I routinely ride into headwinds that add 10-15 mph to my air speed, even if my ground speed is only 15-20 mph. IOW, my air speed could be 35 mph. At times, I even go downhill into that same headwind at speeds up to 30 mph. So, "If you're not a racer, you're not going fast enough for aerodynamics to matter" is a nonsensical argument.
OTOH, if you crouch down another inch, you have lessened air resistance more already than all the aero a bike can give you, unless you switch to a recumbent.
#555
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*(On Yet Another Hand.) How many you got?
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You don't need to use a bonded crankset to ride shimano 11 and 12sp. So that's an absurd reason to not use Shimano road tech from the last decade.
The cable fray issue is way overblown. Just spend $10 on 2 new shift cables each year and ride. Yes there will be a report of someone chewing a shift cable in 6mo, but there will also be a report of someone riding their 11sp Shimano bike for 3 years with the same cables. You ride steel frames even though there are obviously examples of steel frames failing.
Anyways, just say you prefer something because of emotion and not logic. It's a hobby- it's OK to have preferences that are emotion based.
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First contribution to this thread.
Approximately 50 other argumentative posts in between. Ending with this charmer.
None have anything to do with the actual topic of the thread of why are current high end bikes so expensive.
... qft. It's interesting you see proprietary parts as a positive development in this technology of bicycles. Meanwhile, the chain drive, derailleur shifted bike you ride around on is based on a drive train concept that was developed and perfected over those years you say you know nothing about. But now you can shift it with a servo motor. That's some high tech right there, boy.
None have anything to do with the actual topic of the thread of why are current high end bikes so expensive.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 04-07-24 at 06:45 PM.
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If you only ride downhill, you'll be taking full advantage of your new, expensive, CF race bike.
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If bikes are expensive because of all the R+D, a chain drive with servo motor derailleur shifting is not a lot of bang for the buck.
BTW, this one is coincidental from my ride today. I'm standing on the bridge, watching the river and stretching, at the turnaround. There's a guy on the other railing, opposite, with Di 2 equipped Canyon. Another guy rides up to him and asks for some help...he wants to borrow his battery to shift into a get home gear. His is dead. Canyon guy obliges, they exchange some banter about always carrying a spare battery, etc.
I continue to stretch. Then I ride home on the PX-10 I chose today.
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...a typical enlightened comment on CF bike frames, made up on the spur of the moment :
...a typical enlightened comment on CF bike frames, made up on the spur of the moment :
Hey, man, CFRP is a space age material. They use that **** in airplanes and rocket ships. Bikes made from it are expensive because the bike industry had to invent the stuff, and all the molding and forming techniques.
#565
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Or, only those who can exceed 2000 watts in a sprint, after doing a miles of solo breakaway, and climbing Alpe d'Huez solo, then descending like Pidcock, all over cobbles, are taking full advantage of their new, expensive CF race bikes. Because if they're not doing all of that, they're not getting the full benefit.
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Or, only those who can exceed 2000 watts in a sprint, after doing a miles of solo breakaway, and climbing Alpe d'Huez solo, then descending like Pidcock, all over cobbles, are taking full advantage of their new, expensive CF race bikes. Because if they're not doing all of that, they're not getting the full benefit.
...that's a harsh judgement. I would say anyone who races professionally is probably taking full advantage of the bike. I mean, they mostly get them for free, so how much return benefit do they need to get to take full advantage ?
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So, if getting them free means they get great return benefit, what about people with a LOT of disposable income, so that $15,000 for a bike is a trivial expense? Compare that to someone for whom it's a significant expense, but then they both ride exactly the same. Is the rich guy taking more advantage?
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...I thought the reasoning was they are so expensive, because of all the R+D ? I'm not even the guy who brought that idea into the thread. What am I missing ? Other than that you are counting my posts here. AS I've said several times already (you can for sure find it in one of those argumentative posts you're counting)....I don't see the past 20 years of bicycle tech as some sort of two wheeled moonshot. A lot of that tech either borrows from the past, or from other tech advances in the present.
If bikes are expensive because of all the R+D, a chain drive with servo motor derailleur shifting is not a lot of bang for the buck.
BTW, this one is coincidental from my ride today. I'm standing on the bridge, watching the river and stretching, at the turnaround. There's a guy on the other railing, opposite, with Di 2 equipped Canyon. Another guy rides up to him and asks for some help...he wants to borrow his battery to shift into a get home gear. His is dead. Canyon guy obliges, they exchange some banter about always carrying a spare battery, etc.
I continue to stretch. Then I ride home on the PX-10 I chose today.
If bikes are expensive because of all the R+D, a chain drive with servo motor derailleur shifting is not a lot of bang for the buck.
BTW, this one is coincidental from my ride today. I'm standing on the bridge, watching the river and stretching, at the turnaround. There's a guy on the other railing, opposite, with Di 2 equipped Canyon. Another guy rides up to him and asks for some help...he wants to borrow his battery to shift into a get home gear. His is dead. Canyon guy obliges, they exchange some banter about always carrying a spare battery, etc.
I continue to stretch. Then I ride home on the PX-10 I chose today.
A modern Di2 battery will last between 2000 and 5000 kilometers per charge. This depends a bit on how often you shift and also your shifting style. The front derailleur has to work harder than the rear derailleur and therefore also consumes more energy.This means that if you use the front derailleur a lot your battery will run out a bit quicker – don’t let this stop you from using the front derailleur though. It takes most people months to ride 2000-5000km and most Di2 users don’t charge their bikes more than three times a year.
Once the battery level reaches 10% the front derailleur will stop working. This way the most battery-hungry operations are disabled and you should be able to finish your ride using just the rear derailleur.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 04-07-24 at 09:07 PM.
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So, if getting them free means they get great return benefit, what about people with a LOT of disposable income, so that $15,000 for a bike is a trivial expense? Compare that to someone for whom it's a significant expense, but then they both ride exactly the same. Is the rich guy taking more advantage?
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I guess you had to be there. I remember wondering why the guy couldn't just jerk his rear derailleur into place, and shift the chain by hand. But then I remembered the tiny servo motor. Maybe someone with Di 2 can explain it to me. I don't have it myself.
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Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.
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Amateur riders actually get more benefit (time saved over a course) from reduced aero drag than pros. This may not be intuitive at their lower speeds, but it is a fact.
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IOW, drag (and design of a bike to minimize it), has dramatically increased at speeds of 25 mph and up. So the faster riders are "getting more advantage" from the design. I don't honestly know how much "time saved over a course" either group is experiencing. It seems you do. What is missing in my thinking on this ?
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Last edited by 3alarmer; 04-08-24 at 08:29 AM.
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...yes, it is not intuitive. As I said before, this is not something I ever did for a living. So here's another teaching moment for you. How exactly does that work ? My amateur's understanding tells me that drag increases roughly with the square of speed. What major thing am I missing ? Isn't that the reason for reducing the drag coefficient through wind tunnel testing of different shapes at various speeds ? Feel free to leave out wind as a complicating factor, as I certainly have.
IOW, drag (and design of a bike to minimize it), has dramatically increased at speeds of 25 mph and up. So the faster riders are "getting more advantage" from the design. I don't honestly know how much "time saved over a course" either group is experiencing. It seems you do. What is missing in my thinking on this ?
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IOW, drag (and design of a bike to minimize it), has dramatically increased at speeds of 25 mph and up. So the faster riders are "getting more advantage" from the design. I don't honestly know how much "time saved over a course" either group is experiencing. It seems you do. What is missing in my thinking on this ?
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Same for rolling resistance, drivetrain resistance... even weight.
Last edited by Jughed; 04-08-24 at 09:25 AM.
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...yes, it is not intuitive. As I said before, this is not something I ever did for a living. So here's another teaching moment for you. How exactly does that work ? My amateur's understanding tells me that drag increases roughly with the square of speed. What major thing am I missing ? Isn't that the reason for reducing the drag coefficient through wind tunnel testing of different shapes at various speeds ? Feel free to leave out wind as a complicating factor, as I certainly have.
IOW, drag (and design of a bike to minimize it), has dramatically increased at speeds of 25 mph and up. So the faster riders are "getting more advantage" from the design. I don't honestly know how much "time saved over a course" either group is experiencing. It seems you do. What is missing in my thinking on this ?
.
.
IOW, drag (and design of a bike to minimize it), has dramatically increased at speeds of 25 mph and up. So the faster riders are "getting more advantage" from the design. I don't honestly know how much "time saved over a course" either group is experiencing. It seems you do. What is missing in my thinking on this ?
.
.
So when all the numbers are crunched it is actually the amateurs who stand to win the most time gain from their aero bikes.
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