Need a wee bit more clearance for tires.
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,009
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3641 Post(s)
Liked 3,078 Times
in
1,856 Posts
What you wrote was "Glue some crap to the dropouts." Your problem is that you can't articulate what is wrong with adding a small spacer to the fork dropouts and keep changing what your objection is. First it is that they aren't adjustable, then that they negatively impact handling, then how they are held in.
Why not say "I don't like it" instead of making objections that you can't sustain for more than one post?
Why not say "I don't like it" instead of making objections that you can't sustain for more than one post?
Why is it so hard for you to come to grips with the idea that not everyone agrees with your "wisdom" when it comes to bike mechanics?
Last edited by smd4; 05-03-24 at 10:17 AM.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
Your problem isn't that you don't like shortcuts, it's that you don't like THIS shortcut. But it is far safer and less stupid than half the stuff that people want to do to their bikes.
Full disclosure: I did this for a friend so she could ride her Vitus with cyclocross tires one autumn. I had never heard of doing this, but it was an obvious and easy solution. When the season was over I popped the spacers off and mounted 25c tires again. It was fast, easy, safe and simple. Unlike buying a bike or a fork.
Likes For Kontact:
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,009
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3641 Post(s)
Liked 3,078 Times
in
1,856 Posts
Half of what is discussed with bike mechanics on this board are "shortcuts" that allow all sorts of things that the manufacturer didn't design for to work. Shimergo, race fenders, wide rims, respacing dropouts, travel agents, SSCouplers, threadless adapters, zero setback seatposts, drop bar MTBs, clip on aerobars. They are all shortcuts.
Your problem isn't that you don't like shortcuts, it's that you don't like THIS shortcut. But it is far safer and less stupid than half the stuff that people want to do to their bikes.
Full disclosure: I did this for a friend so she could ride her Vitus with cyclocross tires one autumn. I had never heard of doing this, but it was an obvious and easy solution. When the season was over I popped the spacers off and mounted 25c tires again.
Your problem isn't that you don't like shortcuts, it's that you don't like THIS shortcut. But it is far safer and less stupid than half the stuff that people want to do to their bikes.
Full disclosure: I did this for a friend so she could ride her Vitus with cyclocross tires one autumn. I had never heard of doing this, but it was an obvious and easy solution. When the season was over I popped the spacers off and mounted 25c tires again.
Oh, and one other thing: THIS IS MY OPINION.
Do what you want.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
But it would be easy enough to drill and pin the dropout if aesthetics are so important.
Another solution is to use tiny rare earth magnets on the axles, if they are steel.
Or you can make a tabbed washer that attaches to the skewer. But that takes fiddling to line up.
Likes For Kontact:
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,009
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3641 Post(s)
Liked 3,078 Times
in
1,856 Posts
Hack away!
Likes For smd4:
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,837
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1111 Post(s)
Liked 1,050 Times
in
740 Posts
There is acres of clearance for the frame and the fork. Enough so, that without brakes, this frame would probably mount knobby 35’s, if you’re into that sort of thing.
The issue is 100 percent the mounting point of the front brake. If the hole in the crown was 5mm higher, this entire travesty of a thread wouldn’t exist.
I’m honestly impressed with those older Campy brakes, due to their slim design they fit a wider tire than about anything else I can think of. I can’t think of anything I could replace them with that would offer more clearance.
The issue is 100 percent the mounting point of the front brake. If the hole in the crown was 5mm higher, this entire travesty of a thread wouldn’t exist.
I’m honestly impressed with those older Campy brakes, due to their slim design they fit a wider tire than about anything else I can think of. I can’t think of anything I could replace them with that would offer more clearance.
#57
Senior Member
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"
"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."
Spacing out the caliper center bolt will do zero, and some harm. Zero because that bolt is pretty close to tangent angle to the tire, so you would need to space it out a lot, and harm because every bit of increase is putting more bending moment on the bolt for the same braking thrust. Spacing the caliper up if they make an offset bolt, or the wheel down if you have plenty of dropout length, would be better solutions.
EDIT: Examine if taking the spacers out from between both pads and the caliper arms, brings the arms up in the center.
"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."
Spacing out the caliper center bolt will do zero, and some harm. Zero because that bolt is pretty close to tangent angle to the tire, so you would need to space it out a lot, and harm because every bit of increase is putting more bending moment on the bolt for the same braking thrust. Spacing the caliper up if they make an offset bolt, or the wheel down if you have plenty of dropout length, would be better solutions.
EDIT: Examine if taking the spacers out from between both pads and the caliper arms, brings the arms up in the center.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-03-24 at 10:51 PM.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,902
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 919 Post(s)
Liked 2,107 Times
in
1,108 Posts
Tires tend to expand a bit, so I'd be concerned if new tires are that close. I'd probably shop around for tires that are a tad less tall.
ENVE SES 700C at 29mm perhaps.
ENVE SES 700C at 29mm perhaps.
Likes For downtube42:
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
Spacing out the caliper center bolt will do zero, and some harm. Zero because that bolt is pretty close to tangent angle to the tire, so you would need to space it out a lot, and harm because every bit of increase is putting more bending moment on the bolt for the same braking thrust. Spacing the caliper up if they make an offset bolt, or the wheel down if you have plenty of dropout length, would be better solutions.
EDIT: Examine if taking the spacers out from between both pads and the caliper arms, brings the arms up in the center.
#60
Senior Member
Yes but due to the diameter of the tire, I think you wouldn't even make a dent in the clearance until at least an inch or more spaced out. Hard to see, but based on the pic of the rear caliper, I think the arm closest to the fork is closer to the tire, versus the arm farther away. I'll have to do a calc later.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-04-24 at 02:27 PM.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,054
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5971 Post(s)
Liked 2,878 Times
in
1,602 Posts
Yes but due to the diameter of the tire, I think you wouldn't even make a dent in the clearance until at least an inch or more spaced out. Hard to see, but based on the pic of the rear caliper, I think the arm closest to the fork is closer to the tire, versus the arm farther away. I'll have to do a calc later.
The axle is forward of the crown. Ergo, 12 o'clock is likewise forward of the crown by the same amount. So moving the brake out from the crown has it meet the rising tire.
In case you think that the tilted steering axis changes anything, sketch it with a vertical steering axis, then rotate the sketch 17 degrees.
Conclusion, bringing the brake out from the fork is counter-productive.
-------
IMO, close only matters in horseshoes. The OP mentions the molding flash touching, which doesn't matter, so there's nothing to fix. OTOH, if the OP prefers more clearance, the easiest, least consequential fix is to move the wheel down a bit. I'd use body filler in the dropout, then once cured, file it so the wheel pockets squarely. This is easily reversed later, should the OP opt to.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,845
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 2,201 Times
in
1,339 Posts
You can always get a duplicate donor caliper and file/grind a bit off that one. No one will ever notice and you keep your original intact.
I’ve read of bending the caliper mounting bolt, but not sure of the ramifications once it is pushed past its yield point.
John
I’ve read of bending the caliper mounting bolt, but not sure of the ramifications once it is pushed past its yield point.
John
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
Yes but due to the diameter of the tire, I think you wouldn't even make a dent in the clearance until at least an inch or more spaced out. Hard to see, but based on the pic of the rear caliper, I think the arm closest to the fork is closer to the tire, versus the arm farther away. I'll have to do a calc later.
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
No need for complicated math. Just some visualization.
The axle is forward of the crown. Ergo, 12 o'clock is likewise forward of the crown by the same amount. So moving the brake out from the crown has it meet the rising tire.
In case you think that the tilted steering axis changes anything, sketch it with a vertical steering axis, then rotate the sketch 17 degrees.
Conclusion, bringing the brake out from the fork is counter-productive.
-------
IMO, close only matters in horseshoes. The OP mentions the molding flash touching, which doesn't matter, so there's nothing to fix. OTOH, if the OP prefers more clearance, the easiest, least consequential fix is to move the wheel down a bit. I'd use body filler in the dropout, then once cured, file it so the wheel pockets squarely. This is easily reversed later, should the OP opt to.
The axle is forward of the crown. Ergo, 12 o'clock is likewise forward of the crown by the same amount. So moving the brake out from the crown has it meet the rising tire.
In case you think that the tilted steering axis changes anything, sketch it with a vertical steering axis, then rotate the sketch 17 degrees.
Conclusion, bringing the brake out from the fork is counter-productive.
-------
IMO, close only matters in horseshoes. The OP mentions the molding flash touching, which doesn't matter, so there's nothing to fix. OTOH, if the OP prefers more clearance, the easiest, least consequential fix is to move the wheel down a bit. I'd use body filler in the dropout, then once cured, file it so the wheel pockets squarely. This is easily reversed later, should the OP opt to.
You're making certain assumptions about the angle of the hole in the crown vs the center of the front hub, and they are wrong.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,054
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5971 Post(s)
Liked 2,878 Times
in
1,602 Posts
So, feel free to think I'm wrong, but I stand by my post, and choose not to pointlessly argue the point with you.
In any case, the OP has the bike and knows what's what.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,146 Posts
You're looking ar a photo which wasn't taken directly from the side, so doesn't properly show the reality.
Yes, I'm assuming that this is a halfway decent fork with the brake hole drilled EXACTLY normal to the steering axis, which is SOP and pretty hard to get wrong.
So, feel free to think I'm wrong, but I stand by my post, and choose not to pointlessly argue the point with you.
In any case, the OP has the bike and knows what's what.
Yes, I'm assuming that this is a halfway decent fork with the brake hole drilled EXACTLY normal to the steering axis, which is SOP and pretty hard to get wrong.
So, feel free to think I'm wrong, but I stand by my post, and choose not to pointlessly argue the point with you.
In any case, the OP has the bike and knows what's what.
#67
Senior Member
(Cue my father to begin discussion of "The true length of a line".)
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-04-24 at 09:14 PM.
#68
With a mighty wind
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,659
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1131 Post(s)
Liked 925 Times
in
523 Posts
So it’s a straight leg fork. I think the dropouts are either straight or just slightly forward. Pretty standard for a straight fork.
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway. I had the fork off a few years ago and I think that’s what I observed.
I’m hoping to mess with it a little bit tomorrow. If for no other reason than to put some of these arguments to rest.
If I can’t get to it tomorrow though, it’ll be Thursday the next time I have a chance. I’ll report back.
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway. I had the fork off a few years ago and I think that’s what I observed.
I’m hoping to mess with it a little bit tomorrow. If for no other reason than to put some of these arguments to rest.
If I can’t get to it tomorrow though, it’ll be Thursday the next time I have a chance. I’ll report back.
Likes For rosefarts:
#69
Senior Member
So it’s a straight leg fork. I think the dropouts are either straight or just slightly forward. Pretty standard for a straight fork.
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway. I had the fork off a few years ago and I think that’s what I observed.
I’m hoping to mess with it a little bit tomorrow. If for no other reason than to put some of these arguments to rest.
If I can’t get to it tomorrow though, it’ll be Thursday the next time I have a chance. I’ll report back.
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway. I had the fork off a few years ago and I think that’s what I observed.
I’m hoping to mess with it a little bit tomorrow. If for no other reason than to put some of these arguments to rest.
If I can’t get to it tomorrow though, it’ll be Thursday the next time I have a chance. I’ll report back.
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,054
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5971 Post(s)
Liked 2,878 Times
in
1,602 Posts
So it’s a straight leg fork. I think the dropouts are either straight or just slightly forward. Pretty standard for a straight fork.
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway.....
That does mean that the crown will tilt out from the steerer tube at a greater angle in order to hit the same rake position as a curved fork. I think it does anyway.....
Then both sides of the crown are "twisted" (in terms of axis, if not obvious fron the outside) so the blades are angled forward to establish the rake.
So everything I said earlier apply the same as it would with curved blades.
*bottled or draft
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 718
Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Liked 186 Times
in
114 Posts
A 28 tubular will ride better than a 30 clincher.
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,721
Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 574 Post(s)
Liked 615 Times
in
424 Posts
Upside-down "drop bolt?"
I'd be concerned in running with clearance that tight on the front wheel. Something that sticks to the tire could jam under the caliper and lock up the wheel, causing a crash.
Looks like plenty of clearance on the back; maybe just run a narrower tire on the front?
I'd be concerned in running with clearance that tight on the front wheel. Something that sticks to the tire could jam under the caliper and lock up the wheel, causing a crash.
Looks like plenty of clearance on the back; maybe just run a narrower tire on the front?
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,009
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3641 Post(s)
Liked 3,078 Times
in
1,856 Posts
Like what? A goat head? Shard of glass? To think something picked up by the tire at road speed will lock up the wheel is delusional. Right up there with thinking that snagging a twig will blow open your quick release.
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 504 Times
in
383 Posts
Edit: I remember the brand - they were Salmon Profile mudguards, a French product.
Last edited by grumpus; 05-07-24 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Remembered name
#75
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,844
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,454 Times
in
1,960 Posts
Or a wad of tarry gravel. While it may not lock up the wheel completely, it can still be enough to launch a face-plant.