Tubelss tire seating
05-05-24, 07:27 PM
#27
Senior Member
Totally agree. Rubber has poor heat transfer, you'll burn outside before getting the whole of it hot I think. Hot water has inherent limits on temp, plus good heat transfer and totally enveloping the tire. In fact, you could do the tire while it is on the rim, inflated. Gimme a sec to calculate max pressure due to ideal gas laws... assuming rise in temp from 20C to 100C, that's 80/(273(K)+20) = 0.27, so 27% increase in pressure due to temp. Lower max pressure in tire by 1/4 or 25% before dipping tire on rim in hot water. Oh, also, make sure hot water does not damage rim, if this is carbon rim! I don't know.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-05-24 at 07:35 PM.
05-05-24, 10:54 PM
#29
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OK, guys. I am seriously stumped here.
After the last discussion, I have since pulled the tire back off, removed the tape I just put on a few months ago and applied new MucOff tape. I cleaned the living snot out of the inside of the wheel while the tape was off, removed all traces of the old sealant and tape glue. I put the tire back on and even applied a light water-based lubricant. I have aired the tire back up to 120psi several times. I've inflated, deflated it, applied a little extra lubricant, ridden 10-12 miles. Bounced it, kicked it, leaned on it, cursed at it, sweet talked it, prayed to the cycling gods. Everything I can think of and it just won't pop the rest of the bead on. There's more on than before, but probably still a good 6-8" on one side that just refuses to jump up on that shelf.
The tire will hold enough air that I can ride 4-5 miles at a time before losing enough to go soft (haven't tried any further than that) but it does eventually bleed down. No surprise there.
I'm at a loss.
After the last discussion, I have since pulled the tire back off, removed the tape I just put on a few months ago and applied new MucOff tape. I cleaned the living snot out of the inside of the wheel while the tape was off, removed all traces of the old sealant and tape glue. I put the tire back on and even applied a light water-based lubricant. I have aired the tire back up to 120psi several times. I've inflated, deflated it, applied a little extra lubricant, ridden 10-12 miles. Bounced it, kicked it, leaned on it, cursed at it, sweet talked it, prayed to the cycling gods. Everything I can think of and it just won't pop the rest of the bead on. There's more on than before, but probably still a good 6-8" on one side that just refuses to jump up on that shelf.
The tire will hold enough air that I can ride 4-5 miles at a time before losing enough to go soft (haven't tried any further than that) but it does eventually bleed down. No surprise there.
I'm at a loss.
05-06-24, 07:12 PM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I finally, finally, finally got that tire to fully seat on the wheel. I put a generous helping of soapy water on the tire, inflated to 120psi and then gave it a couple dozen "love taps" with a rubber mallet to persuade the bead to seat. I then let all the air out to verify both beads were up on that shelf, then put in my sealant, aired it up to 90psi and took it out for a 34 mile ride with zero problems. Got back about six hours ago and just checked it a few minutes ago and the tire is still inflated. I think it's finally good.
But I have to say, I think I'm going to try other brands besides Schwalbe just to see if another brand is any easier to work with. Only reason I tried Schwalbe is because it is a reputable brand and it was $12+ cheaper than other comparable brands. After all this, I'll gladly pay the difference if the tire seats like it's supposed to.
But I have to say, I think I'm going to try other brands besides Schwalbe just to see if another brand is any easier to work with. Only reason I tried Schwalbe is because it is a reputable brand and it was $12+ cheaper than other comparable brands. After all this, I'll gladly pay the difference if the tire seats like it's supposed to.
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05-06-24, 07:23 PM
#31
Senior Member
I finally, finally, finally got that tire to fully seat on the wheel. I put a generous helping of soapy water on the tire, inflated to 120psi and then gave it a couple dozen "love taps" with a rubber mallet to persuade the bead to seat. I then let all the air out to verify both beads were up on that shelf, then put in my sealant, aired it up to 90psi and took it out for a 34 mile ride with zero problems. Got back about six hours ago and just checked it a few minutes ago and the tire is still inflated. I think it's finally good.
But I have to say, I think I'm going to try other brands besides Schwalbe just to see if another brand is any easier to work with. Only reason I tried Schwalbe is because it is a reputable brand and it was $12+ cheaper than other comparable brands. After all this, I'll gladly pay the difference if the tire seats like it's supposed to.
But I have to say, I think I'm going to try other brands besides Schwalbe just to see if another brand is any easier to work with. Only reason I tried Schwalbe is because it is a reputable brand and it was $12+ cheaper than other comparable brands. After all this, I'll gladly pay the difference if the tire seats like it's supposed to.
It's actually very simple. The rim is deepest at the center. The valve blocks that and keeps the tire on the side, costing you what could have been working slack.
Also, he says that he prefers steel wire beads, as they stretch less than (foldable) kevlar, so they often size kevlar smaller to account for stretch over time.
05-06-24, 07:43 PM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
You know, that's something I discovered quite by accident. On tube tires, I start at the valve and work to the opposite side. However, for the exact reason posted, with tubeless, I start 180* from the valve and work toward it. That does work better for a tubeless set up.
I'm still too new, as are my tires, to the tubeless set up to experience any bead stretch yet.
I'm still too new, as are my tires, to the tubeless set up to experience any bead stretch yet.
05-06-24, 07:52 PM
#33
Senior Member
You know, that's something I discovered quite by accident. On tube tires, I start at the valve and work to the opposite side. However, for the exact reason posted, with tubeless, I start 180* from the valve and work toward it. That does work better for a tubeless set up.
I'm still too new, as are my tires, to the tubeless set up to experience any bead stretch yet.
I'm still too new, as are my tires, to the tubeless set up to experience any bead stretch yet.
05-06-24, 09:34 PM
#34
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If it's a slow enough leak at that point, then try a floor pump. I can get to a way higher pressure with a floor pump than my air compressors. The only thing they have going for them is they can put out more volume of air faster.
CFM vs PSI. Compressors can give you more CFM. Floor pumps can give more PSI than the typical shop air compressor. Many shop compressors only able to go from 125 - 150 PSI. While a 200 pound person should easily be able to get a floor pump to over 150 PSI. Though the size of the floor pumps cylinder/piston does make a difference.
But then again, a 120 pound person will have a issue trying to get a floor pump anywhere close to even 100 PSI.
CFM vs PSI. Compressors can give you more CFM. Floor pumps can give more PSI than the typical shop air compressor. Many shop compressors only able to go from 125 - 150 PSI. While a 200 pound person should easily be able to get a floor pump to over 150 PSI. Though the size of the floor pumps cylinder/piston does make a difference.
But then again, a 120 pound person will have a issue trying to get a floor pump anywhere close to even 100 PSI.
Last edited by Camilo; 05-06-24 at 09:47 PM.
05-06-24, 09:43 PM
#35
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Any time I remove a tubeless tire to replace it, I scrub the rim squeaky clean with water and a stiff brush.
If the same tire is going back on, it also gets scrubbed clean. Especially the bead.
Barry
Edit: if your bead still won’t jump up on to the shelf
1. air down to about 30psi
2. pull sidewall away from rim where it won’t jump
3. add a little water with dish soap in it to the non-jump
4. air up to your riding psi, mine is 80psi
5. go make yourself coffee and leave it alone for 10-20mins
If the same tire is going back on, it also gets scrubbed clean. Especially the bead.
Barry
Edit: if your bead still won’t jump up on to the shelf
1. air down to about 30psi
2. pull sidewall away from rim where it won’t jump
3. add a little water with dish soap in it to the non-jump
4. air up to your riding psi, mine is 80psi
5. go make yourself coffee and leave it alone for 10-20mins
