Old Wheels
05-06-24, 09:27 AM
#1
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Old Wheels
I spent my evenings last week rebuilding a set of wheels, replacing the rims, spokes, and nipples with all new. I even got myself a tension meter to make sure the spoke tension was right and balanced. Those wheels came out great!
So, armed with new tools and the desire to use
them I turned my attention to the wheels on my 1989 Schwinn Circuit. These have Shimano Sante hubs, Wolber Profil TX rims, and 32 un-butted spokes. Recommended tension for the front and drive side rear would be 100-120 kgf, and 66 kgf for the NDS. I checked. Tension on the front spokes was between 45 and 65. Way low. So I put a drop of TriFlow onto each spoke a the nipple, and set about increasing the tension. At least 4 of the nipples were rounded out, and I only made that worse. I got all the way around the wheel, trued it up again, and stopped. Didn't even measure the tension, because what could I do? Round out more nipples?
So, my question to the C&V folks is - what do you do about the wheels that come on bikes you acquire? True them up, of course! But do you bother with the spoke tension? At this point, I'm considering going back and replacing ALL the nipples with new ones so I can re-tension the wheels, but am I crazy? The spokes are all fine, as far as I can tell, so I wouldn't replace those, and the anodized rims show only light brake track wear, so they're fine. Should I just leave well enough alone?
So, armed with new tools and the desire to use
them I turned my attention to the wheels on my 1989 Schwinn Circuit. These have Shimano Sante hubs, Wolber Profil TX rims, and 32 un-butted spokes. Recommended tension for the front and drive side rear would be 100-120 kgf, and 66 kgf for the NDS. I checked. Tension on the front spokes was between 45 and 65. Way low. So I put a drop of TriFlow onto each spoke a the nipple, and set about increasing the tension. At least 4 of the nipples were rounded out, and I only made that worse. I got all the way around the wheel, trued it up again, and stopped. Didn't even measure the tension, because what could I do? Round out more nipples?
So, my question to the C&V folks is - what do you do about the wheels that come on bikes you acquire? True them up, of course! But do you bother with the spoke tension? At this point, I'm considering going back and replacing ALL the nipples with new ones so I can re-tension the wheels, but am I crazy? The spokes are all fine, as far as I can tell, so I wouldn't replace those, and the anodized rims show only light brake track wear, so they're fine. Should I just leave well enough alone?
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05-06-24, 09:51 AM
#2
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The wheels on new acquisitions get a couple drops of Liquid Wrench at both ends of the nipples at the same time I squirt PB Blaster on all of the bike's other fasteners. I attend to the wheels days, weeks, sometimes months after I have disassembled the bike. When I get to the wheels, usually, the brass nipples will turn and I completely de-tension the wheel and bring it back up to tension a la Roger Musson's excellent book. I believe that I feel the difference before and after this rebuild. Sometimes I need to fuss if the wheelbuilder used the wrong spoke lengths.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
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05-06-24, 11:40 AM
#3
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
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The wheels on new acquisitions get a couple drops of Liquid Wrench at both ends of the nipples at the same time I squirt PB Blaster on all of the bike's other fasteners. I attend to the wheels days, weeks, sometimes months after I have disassembled the bike. When I get to the wheels, usually, the brass nipples will turn and I completely de-tension the wheel and bring it back up to tension a la Roger Musson's excellent book. I believe that I feel the difference before and after this rebuild. Sometimes I need to fuss if the wheelbuilder used the wrong spoke lengths.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
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"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
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05-06-24, 04:31 PM
#4
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On one of my orders for bike parts, I picked up a package of 100 nipples. I also save old good nipples for such a purpose. When I get a wheel, if I feel is not tensioned enough, I will tighten each spoke. The ones that round off get replaced. The ones that tighten, stay. I've never replaced a entiere wheels worth, however, in you situation, I probably would.
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05-06-24, 07:14 PM
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I have only built about 4 wheels and still a beginner on this. One thing I heard before and it is quite reasonable that you might not trust the absolute read out of the tension meter unless it’s super $$$ one which may just have less error. You may use your other working wheels as reference points instead of trying to push for 100+ kgf.. just my 2c
I also bought a more precious spoke tools like park tools as cheap one seems quite loose.
I also bought a more precious spoke tools like park tools as cheap one seems quite loose.
Last edited by ryanl092; 05-06-24 at 07:19 PM.
05-06-24, 09:45 PM
#6
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They all get thorough cleaning and polishing of any rash. Dismantle the hub. Wet sand the rim with 1000 grit. Spray or drip wd-40 to penetrate the nipple threads. Detune and retune all of them (like a guitar). Then a major true. On rare occasion, that's not enough, so I'll fully rebuild them.
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05-06-24, 11:11 PM
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Same here as with SurferRosa... Clean um up. I use ATF with some Denatured Alcohol to soak the edges of the rim in a shallow pan getting both the top and the bottom of the nipples. I then wait about 24 hours before trying to move the nipples. I loosen up, detune, the wheel. I check to make sure it is round and flat after loosening it up. I have an old heavy duty steel rim for this. I really like my cheap ChiCom spoke tension meter but I only use if for ball park tension. Especially on an old wheel. You will go crazy if you pay to much attention to the numbers. Getting it close is good. Front wheel is pretty easy. Rear wheel I bring the drive side up to around my desired tension and then true adjusting the nondrive side. All this without a real trueing stand so far.
Things like this many years ago were a chore, but as my ability to ride diminishes, my joy of doing projects like this increases...
Note: On one old steel MAVAC wheel I did not have the proper sized Spoke Wrench. And I have more then a few! I finally just took and old round spoke wrench and filed it to the needed size.
Things like this many years ago were a chore, but as my ability to ride diminishes, my joy of doing projects like this increases...
Note: On one old steel MAVAC wheel I did not have the proper sized Spoke Wrench. And I have more then a few! I finally just took and old round spoke wrench and filed it to the needed size.
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No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)Last edited by zandoval; 05-06-24 at 11:16 PM.
05-06-24, 11:18 PM
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The wheels on new acquisitions get a couple drops of Liquid Wrench at both ends of the nipples at the same time I squirt PB Blaster on all of the bike's other fasteners. I attend to the wheels days, weeks, sometimes months after I have disassembled the bike. When I get to the wheels, usually, the brass nipples will turn and I completely de-tension the wheel and bring it back up to tension a la Roger Musson's excellent book. I believe that I feel the difference before and after this rebuild. Sometimes I need to fuss if the wheelbuilder used the wrong spoke lengths.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
If a nipple or two won't turn, I grab it with some small Vise-Grips. If there are more than two problem nipples, it is often most of them and they need replacing and maybe even the stainless spokes.
05-06-24, 11:25 PM
#9
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So far I havan't had a lot use for nipple solvents and such, but I just found a few rounded on some oldies. Maybe I need to follow the suggestions of Sandoval and others here!
Also started using Musson and the Park Tensiometer. I'm glad to have better wheels, no doubt!!!
Also started using Musson and the Park Tensiometer. I'm glad to have better wheels, no doubt!!!
05-06-24, 11:50 PM
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Same here as with SurferRosa... Clean um up. I use ATF with some Denatured Alcohol to soak the edges of the rim in a shallow pan getting both the top and the bottom of the nipples. I then wait about 24 hours before trying to move the nipples. I loosen up, detune, the wheel. I check to make sure it is round and flat after loosening it up. I have an old heavy duty steel rim for this. I really like my cheap ChiCom spoke tension meter but I only use if for ball park tension. Especially on an old wheel. You will go crazy if you pay to much attention to the numbers. Getting it close is good. Front wheel is pretty easy. Rear wheel I bring the drive side up to around my desired tension and then true adjusting the nondrive side. All this without a real trueing stand so far.
Things like this many years ago were a chore, but as my ability to ride diminishes, my joy of doing projects like this increases...
Note: On one old steel MAVAC wheel I did not have the proper sized Spoke Wrench. And I have more then a few! I finally just took and old round spoke wrench and filed it to the needed size.
Things like this many years ago were a chore, but as my ability to ride diminishes, my joy of doing projects like this increases...
Note: On one old steel MAVAC wheel I did not have the proper sized Spoke Wrench. And I have more then a few! I finally just took and old round spoke wrench and filed it to the needed size.
05-06-24, 11:59 PM
#11
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05-07-24, 12:13 AM
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That was the only thing I could think of, but thought, maybe an acronym for some fancy new product. I hadn't realized it's use in this fashion. Thank you
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05-07-24, 06:35 AM
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I have a Wheelsmith tensiometer but only use it when I build a wheel to ensure I’m in the right ballpark. On a new to me old wheel, I check the hub, true the wheel and ride it. If it won’t stay in true, which is rare, then I might de-tension and start over on the wheel.
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05-07-24, 02:54 PM
#14
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What's a good source for just the nipples? I want to rebuild a couple of my older wheelsets, and the rims and nipple rounding is a big issue.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
05-07-24, 05:44 PM
#15
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I haven’t done many sets, but the ones I have done have often seen little use in decades. I have no problem with tarnished galvanized spokes, but rounded nipples really bug me. I will replace a few maybe, but any more than that and it’s time for all new nipples. My reasoning is that the other old ones will round off with another truing of the wheel in another decade or so.
05-07-24, 06:23 PM
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