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Front wheel issue. Opinions appreciated.

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Old 05-08-24, 06:27 AM
  #51  
Kontact
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Sorry, but no.

Earlier, specifically to avoid endless argument, I linked an authoritive article explaining galling. I gather you didn't bother, and I get that because it's longish.

But here's the opening paragraph....

An important aspect of any part’s design and maintenance is the component’s resistance to wear. Adhesive wear is the product of two metal surfaces being rubbed together. Under a sufficient load, this will penetrate the oxide film on the surface of metals like aluminum and stainless steel. When the force exceeds the metal’s strength, adhesion or cold welding occurs.

It goes on and into greater depth. But the takeaway is that galling results from a metal's affinity for itself, not heat.

So, while we can all speculate, I'm a fan of Occam's Razor....

We have a material prone to galling, we have the right conditions for galling, we have an end result that looks like it might galling, so I'm going to guess that it's probably galling.

FWIW, it's a mistake to think only about rubber brake shoes. The shoes pick up all kinds of grit capable of abrasively machining rims, resulting in aluminum bits embedding in the shoe, giving the aluminum on aluminum friction that galling is about.

I've seen countless examples over the years, and it's most pronounced in certain alloys, so I see it on low end rims, and less so on better rims.
The "cold welding" described in the article is an explanation of what happens that causes metal to tear away, not be permanently deposited. It is a description of how surface friction can briefly exceed the shear strength of the metal. Galling is common in fasteners and applications where closely fit parts rub together at high speeds.

Cold welding is not a description of two materials being permanently bonded.


As I already explained, the pores galling leaves can allow chunks to get wedged into the in a process that is more like riveting. But a very large chunk requires an equally large hole, not just some light surface roughness.
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Old 05-08-24, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Trying to grind a piece of aluminum on a bench grinder, aluminum will immediately embed into the grinding wheel, requiring hours of flicking out each piece, or dressing the wheel to remove both the aluminum and some abrasive. (Thus signs at machine shop grinders, "NO ALUMINUM".) Steel?
Another reason for those signs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

The thermite reaction can take place accidentally in industrial locations where workers use abrasive grinding and cutting wheels with ferrous metals. Using aluminium in this situation produces a mixture of oxides that can explode violently”.

Last edited by awac; 05-08-24 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-09-24, 01:21 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by awac
Another reason for those signs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

The thermite reaction can take place accidentally in industrial locations where workers use abrasive grinding and cutting wheels with ferrous metals. Using aluminium in this situation produces a mixture of oxides that can explode violently”.
Good point! I knew of thermite from other things, but never made the connection on grinders. Thanks. I recall stationary disc/belt sanders used for chamfering edges and other stuff on materials of all kinds, wood, steel, aluminum, never recall seeing a warning sign, but sounds like there should have been, or at least daily cleaning of the swarf from them.
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Old 05-09-24, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
The "cold welding" described in the article is an explanation of what happens that causes metal to tear away, not be permanently deposited. It is a description of how surface friction can briefly exceed the shear strength of the metal. Galling is common in fasteners and applications where closely fit parts rub together at high speeds.

Cold welding is not a description of two materials being permanently bonded.


As I already explained, the pores galling leaves can allow chunks to get wedged into the in a process that is more like riveting. But a very large chunk requires an equally large hole, not just some light surface roughness.
I think if A=B, B=A; That if cold welding due to galling can lift away metal, it can also be redeposited. From wiki:
One source of difficulty is that cold welding does not exclude relative motion between the surfaces that are to be joined. This allows the broadly defined notions of galling, fretting, stiction and adhesion to overlap in some instances. For example, it is possible for a joint to be the result of both cold (or "vacuum") welding and galling (or fretting or impact). Galling and cold welding, therefore, are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-09-24, 01:38 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I think if A=B, B=A; That if cold welding due to galling can lift away metal, it can also be redeposited. From wiki:
Galling is caused by cold welding. It doesn't say it can be welded all on its own.

Find a science or industry picture of a chunk of metal cold welded to another.
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Old 05-09-24, 02:10 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Good point! I knew of thermite from other things, but never made the connection on grinders. Thanks. I recall stationary disc/belt sanders used for chamfering edges and other stuff on materials of all kinds, wood, steel, aluminum, never recall seeing a warning sign, but sounds like there should have been, or at least daily cleaning of the swarf from them.
Lol. It really is something that should be better publicised. More than one machine shop has gone up in flames. They should have two distinct grinding stations. It is a bit like linseed oil on rags in a wood shop…..
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Old 05-09-24, 05:20 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I saw a blurb about Dahon's "safety disc", clicked on Dahon's euro web article, it redirected me to the USA site in a second (with no info), I hate that! I wish I knew a way around that, tried a different more incognito browser, no help.
The easy solution to that is a VPN that lets you select endpoints in different countries.
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Old 05-09-24, 05:24 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by grumpus
The easy solution to that is a VPN that lets you select endpoints in different countries.
Thanks. I may ask a retired techie about that.
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