Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

ATF as general purpose bike oil?

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

ATF as general purpose bike oil?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-14-24, 05:18 PM
  #26  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,846

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4470 Post(s)
Liked 4,133 Times in 2,762 Posts
I mean you have had bicycle lubricants for decades upon decades I see no reason at all to use random fluids for a task that has something designed for it in fact many things designed for it. You can even use melted wax and that is one you don't need to spend on buying a bicycle specific product but I think chain lube is not a huge expense and there is no need to use ATF or WD-40 or other random fluids.

I would understand trying to use ATF if I was in the middle of nowhere and there was nothing else out there for many miles and I really needed to semi lubricate my chain and couldn't wait at all. But that is a really specific situation that really wouldn't exist much because I have a feeling ATF wouldn't be that fluid available.
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 05-14-24, 05:39 PM
  #27  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,957

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3619 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,841 Posts
Canola oil is cheap. A gallon should last a lifetime.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 05-14-24, 06:13 PM
  #28  
80sKidd
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Many many years ago (like 35) when I worked at a bike shop, Tri-flow and Phil wood grease were our go to's for nice bikes and everything else got WD-40 and bullshot grease. I use Park grease and Sri-flow on all my BMX builds. Getting ready to try the drip wax process on my road bike chain to see how I like it.
80sKidd is offline  
Old 05-14-24, 07:00 PM
  #29  
wheelreason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 400 Posts
Why? And no.
wheelreason is offline  
Old 05-14-24, 07:02 PM
  #30  
wheelreason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 400 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Canola oil is cheap. A gallon should last a lifetime.
The delivery guys from some restaurants use used fryer oil on the chains I make them clean up the mess before I'll let one of my guys near them.
wheelreason is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 12:12 AM
  #31  
Duragrouch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked 521 Times in 416 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Canola oil is cheap. A gallon should last a lifetime.
I don't know about canola oil, but I lubed hair clippers in a pinch with olive oil, big mistake, after a while it dried to a gum and locked up the clippers. Take apart the two blades and clean, a few drops of ATF and they worked perfect, and have for a couple years now.
Duragrouch is online now  
Likes For Duragrouch:
Old 05-15-24, 12:20 AM
  #32  
Duragrouch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked 521 Times in 416 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
It always amuses me that people who spend $5,000 on a bike can't crack their wallets open for a $5.00 bottle of Tri Flow.
I stopped using Tri-Flow "with PTFE" after working in engineering. I know what PTFE looks like, and there doesn't seem to be any, or at least much, in the Tri-Flow clear carrier oil that then evaporates.

There are now commercial formulations and homebrews of hot-melt chain wax with PTFE (and also moly- or tungsten-disulfide), the PTFE additive is a white powder (like the color of plumbing teflon tape), it does not dissolve in many things, that's one of PTFE's strengths in certain applications.
Duragrouch is online now  
Old 05-15-24, 03:33 AM
  #33  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,565
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2592 Post(s)
Liked 3,118 Times in 1,773 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
I simply don't understand the constant search for alternatives to simple cost effective, proven bike focused lubricants

All you need is tri-flow, a tube of phils waterproof grease, Phills tenacious oil (drip into freewheels), your choice of chain lube (Silca super secret liquid is my new go to)

add a penetrating olil for recalcitrant parts (I like Freeze off) and wd40 is not a penetrating oil

50/50 ATF/Acetone is a great penetrant though if you are dealing in high volume
Saw the recommendation for Phil oil in freewheels, instantly thought, "Lives somewhere that doesn't see freezing temps," checked location of poster: San Jose.
Trakhak is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 06:13 AM
  #34  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,488
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1759 Post(s)
Liked 1,389 Times in 728 Posts
I live in Michigan, about half way up the coast and have always used Phil Wood Oil in my freewheels and cassette bodies. Commuted for 20 years in all weather year round and never had any trouble with the freewheel or cassette locking up due to frozen lube inside. Commute distance at that time was 15 miles one way. The coldest I rode in was 0 degrees fahrenheit. Windchill down to -20. My feet froze, but not the freewheel!
TiHabanero is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 06:50 AM
  #35  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,957

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3619 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,841 Posts
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I stopped using Tri-Flow "with PTFE" after working in engineering. I know what PTFE looks like, and there doesn't seem to be any, or at least much, in the Tri-Flow clear carrier oil that then evaporates.
Tri Flow "with Teflon" is my preferred bike oil, and has been since the 1980s. Actually, it's my preferred oil in just about any application.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 05-15-24, 07:02 AM
  #36  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,565
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2592 Post(s)
Liked 3,118 Times in 1,773 Posts
Originally Posted by TiHabanero
I live in Michigan, about half way up the coast and have always used Phil Wood Oil in my freewheels and cassette bodies. Commuted for 20 years in all weather year round and never had any trouble with the freewheel or cassette locking up due to frozen lube inside. Commute distance at that time was 15 miles one way. The coldest I rode in was 0 degrees fahrenheit. Windchill down to -20. My feet froze, but not the freewheel!
I worked in bike shops in New Haven CT during the seventies and serviced at least a few freewheels over the years that had failed during the winter (freewheeling in both directions thanks to the oil being replaced with grease). The pawls were damaged as a consequence of the congealed grease preventing them from being fully pushed out by the springs.

Phil Tenacious Oil might have been OK, but after encountering those failures, I avoided using any lubrication in the freewheel that was heavier than the lightweight lube used at the factory. That's all that's necessary, since there are no load-related forces in play while the freewheel is freewheeling.

Last edited by Trakhak; 05-15-24 at 07:14 AM.
Trakhak is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 11:23 AM
  #37  
Reynolds 
Passista
Thread Starter
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,646

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 885 Post(s)
Liked 747 Times in 409 Posts
BITD we used sewing machine oil for freewheels.
Reynolds is offline  
Likes For Reynolds:
Old 05-15-24, 11:33 AM
  #38  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,583

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 513 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7395 Post(s)
Liked 2,561 Times in 1,490 Posts
I'm not an expert in lubrication, but my opinion is that the choice of lubes on bikes isn't very critical. I used ATF for a while, and it was fine. Eventually, you have to clean or replace a chain regardless of the lube you use. I'm sure one can point out the downsides to any given lube, and I trust they'll be right. Some lubes attract more dirt than others, so the cost is that you have to clean or replace more frequently. Some lubes last longer between applications.

For my chains these days, I'm using Chain-L. It's quite heavy, so I expect it to attract dirt, but I find that it doesn't. Since it's heavy, it last a little longer than light lubes.

For other places that require oil, this is where I think the choice matters even less. Any petroleum oil is fine for me.

Some have mentioned vegetable oil and how it turns to gum. I'm sure that's true, but I can imagine myself on the road, needing lube, being far from a store, and I might use vegetable oil to get me to the next stop. I'm not recommending it; I'm just imagining it.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Likes For noglider:
Old 05-15-24, 12:24 PM
  #39  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,930

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2376 Post(s)
Liked 2,904 Times in 1,583 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak
Saw the recommendation for Phil oil in freewheels, instantly thought, "Lives somewhere that doesn't see freezing temps," checked location of poster: San Jose.
LOL True...did no consider colder climes...... but I grew up in north central Montana, so I do know below zero temps if that counts for anything
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 03:47 PM
  #40  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,451

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,406 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds
BITD we used sewing machine oil for freewheels.
I suspect that you used 3-in-One oil if you cycled anywhere near the days of the Schwinn Stingray. “Sewing machine oil” in those days was probably 3-in-One. It’s not that well known that 3-in-One oil was originally formulated as a bicycle chain lubricant in 1894. My mom would steal my dad’s can of the oil for her sewing machine and both were too cheap to have 2 bottles.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 05-15-24, 04:56 PM
  #41  
PromptCritical 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: San Diego
Posts: 434

Bikes: Columbine, Paramount Track Bike, Colnago Super, Santana Tandems (1995 & 2007), Gary Fisher Piranha, Trek Wahoo, Bianchi Track Bike, a couple of Honda mountain bikes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 83 Posts
I worked at an aerospace company (interestingly "The Aerospace Company") in one of their labs for a couple of summers while in college (long, long time ago). They had so much cool stuff! One of them was a lubricant (I shy away from calling it an oil) that had phosphorus in some form (I forget what). It was super, super slippery, so I put an ounce or so in my wheel bearings and freewheel. The difference was incredible. I went into work on Monday and mentioned it to one of the scientists. He said: "I bet, but you want to be careful as it is highly corrosive of most metals, especially aluminum".

Bummer. I don't think I got it all out of the freewheel as it didn't last long.
__________________
Cheers, Mike
PromptCritical is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 06:26 PM
  #42  
Reynolds 
Passista
Thread Starter
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,646

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 885 Post(s)
Liked 747 Times in 409 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
I suspect that you used 3-in-One oil if you cycled anywhere near the days of the Schwinn Stingray. “Sewing machine oil” in those days was probably 3-in-One. It’s not that well known that 3-in-One oil was originally formulated as a bicycle chain lubricant in 1894. My mom would steal my dad’s can of the oil for her sewing machine and both were too cheap to have 2 bottles.
It was in the '60s, and yes, 3-in-One and Singer were the brands.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 05-15-24, 08:10 PM
  #43  
CrimsonEclipse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 618 Post(s)
Liked 709 Times in 423 Posts
ok... I'm tired.

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms as a what?

Fine, I'll get some sleep!
CrimsonEclipse is offline  
Likes For CrimsonEclipse:
Old 05-15-24, 09:16 PM
  #44  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,837

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times in 739 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds
Ok, apparently ATF isn't too well liked around here. Maybe I try to oversimplify things - if the trend toward super specific lubes goes on, soon you'll get a RD pivot grease and a FD pivot grease.
I've got hub bearing grease for hubs, headset bearing grease for headsets, ring drive lube for freehubs, and finishline grease for BBs; is that close enough? The first cross bike I ever ran had the headset completely seize after 3 races, its replacement king has now been through 3 bikes and still feels like new. The matching hubs have had 4 rim changes from the old rims wearing completely out and 25yrs later the original bearings still roll super smooth, if they say there's a different grease for the purpose I'm willing to trust there's enough difference to need them.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 05-16-24, 01:07 AM
  #45  
Duragrouch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked 521 Times in 416 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
I've got hub bearing grease for hubs, headset bearing grease for headsets, ring drive lube for freehubs, and finishline grease for BBs; is that close enough? The first cross bike I ever ran had the headset completely seize after 3 races, its replacement king has now been through 3 bikes and still feels like new. The matching hubs have had 4 rim changes from the old rims wearing completely out and 25yrs later the original bearings still roll super smooth, if they say there's a different grease for the purpose I'm willing to trust there's enough difference to need them.
Back in the day, dad said, "Son, there is sliding contact grease, and rolling contact grease." The former for things like the zerk fittings on the car steering linkage (sliding bushings), the latter for wheel bearings. In recent decades the tubs of grease I buy say they are good for both. Of late I've been using the green marine wheel bearing grease that Aaron's Bike Repair swears by.

Someone said recently in a post somewhere, that Phil Tenacious Oil is a synthetic, and if so, it should still flow very similar at well below zero F as well above it. I went to school where it would get 20 or 30 below F, and I first started using Mobil 1 synthetic back in the '80s, flowed fabulous at subzero temps, easy engine starts with good lube right away. The same is true of the 75W-90 synthetic gear lube I have been using, though I'm planning to go back to wax as chain lube.
Duragrouch is online now  
Old 05-16-24, 03:02 AM
  #46  
JoeTBM 
Droid on a mission
 
JoeTBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,012

Bikes: Diamondback Wildwood Classic

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Liked 283 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
I suspect that you used 3-in-One oil if you cycled anywhere near the days of the Schwinn Stingray. “Sewing machine oil” in those days was probably 3-in-One. It’s not that well known that 3-in-One oil was originally formulated as a bicycle chain lubricant in 1894. My mom would steal my dad’s can of the oil for her sewing machine and both were too cheap to have 2 bottles.
I find today that sewing machine oil is thinner then 3-in-1. We actually keep some around in needle type dispensers for oiling up gummy trigger shifters and other tight areas.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292190162722?

__________________
JoeTBM (The Bike Man) - I'm a black & white type of guy, the only gray in my life is the hair on my head
www.TheBikeMenOfFlaglerCounty.com





Last edited by JoeTBM; 05-16-24 at 03:09 AM.
JoeTBM is online now  
Likes For JoeTBM:
Old 05-16-24, 11:38 PM
  #47  
Duragrouch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked 521 Times in 416 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeTBM
I find today that sewing machine oil is thinner then 3-in-1. We actually keep some around in needle type dispensers for oiling up gummy trigger shifters and other tight areas.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292190162722?

I used to have one of those oilers with thin oil, I think I got cheap from Nashbar, plastic finally cracked. For same function now, I keep a hypodermic syringe filled with... ATF!

I think back in the day... WAY back in the day, they used whale oil, it was supposed to be a very fine oil. EDIT: Wow, just read this on wiki:
In the United States, whale oil was used in cars as a constituent of automatic transmission fluid until it was banned by the Endangered Species Act of 1973.[23] It was also a major component of hydraulic fluid in tractors (like the ubiquitous JDM Type 303 Special Hydraulic Fluid) until its withdrawal in 1974.[24]

Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-16-24 at 11:46 PM.
Duragrouch is online now  
Old 05-17-24, 01:58 PM
  #48  
grumpus
Senior Member
 
grumpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,385
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I think back in the day... WAY back in the day, they used whale oil, it was supposed to be a very fine oil.
Yep, 19th century sewing machine manuals tell you to use "sperm oil" for smooth running. 😮
grumpus is offline  
Old 05-18-24, 07:49 AM
  #49  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,451

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,406 Posts
Originally Posted by grumpus
Yep, 19th century sewing machine manuals tell you to use "sperm oil" for smooth running. 😮
Spermaceti is the “sperm [whale] oil” that was used. It is not the oil that was rendered from the fat layer that whale have. It is part of an organ in the head of the whale (about 500 US gallons) that helps them with buoyancy and/or echolocation. It has a particularly high lubricity compared to petroleum oils, especially 19th century distillations. Herman Melville describes someone falling into the organ in Moby Dick.

Today, jojoba oil has replaced sperm whale oil as a particularly fine lubricant.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 05-18-24, 08:42 AM
  #50  
grumpus
Senior Member
 
grumpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,385
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
Spermaceti is the “sperm [whale] oil” that was used. It is not the oil that was rendered from the fat layer that whale have. It is part of an organ in the head of the whale (about 500 US gallons) that helps them with buoyancy and/or echolocation. It has a particularly high lubricity compared to petroleum oils, especially 19th century distillations. Herman Melville describes someone falling into the organ in Moby Dick.

Today, jojoba oil has replaced sperm whale oil as a particularly fine lubricant.
I should perhaps have explained that distinction, although I don't think anyone was going to try rendering blubber for their bike anyway. Good to know we have an effective plant-sourced replacement.
grumpus is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.