Plainsman

I’m contemplating my first folding bike and I already know I’m not the ideal budget folding bike prospect (I ride large road frames and I probably need 39 inches from saddle to pedal). So to get started I’m looking at a more basic used folder, and adding a telescoping seat post and a handlebar extension. I see plenty of options in the sub $300 range, and I’ve found post options and handlebar extensions for about $100 combined. This won’t be my primary bike, just something to keep at work for lunch spins, and take when I travel. But I know little about folding bikes - are these mods horrible ideas? For what it’s worth, I’m looking at a used Zizzo Liberte right now. TIA!

Duragrouch

Zizzo Liberte is not bad from what others have said, far above what used to be a budget bike.

I have what used to be a low-range folder, a Dahon Speed, and have modded significantly, not in size (fits me perfect), but in capability; 2X crank for wider gearing for serious hills, front and rear racks and panniers as townie and eventually touring, aero bars, bar ends, etc. Sounds like you just want to keep your bike light and foldy. So, to better help you...

What's the reason for a folder? To fit in a car trunk? Or under a desk at work? Train travel? Or air travel? Just on the flats, or mild hills, or steeper coastal hills or mountains? What's the furthest you may bike on it?

A telescoping seatpost may give you the height you need, but also increase the bending moment at the frame seat tube, and many folders are sensitive to breaking there from metal fatigue under cyclic stress.

Handlebar extensions can be tricky on some folders; Mine, for example, has a 360 degree clamp that is welded integral to the stem riser, and the riser is tapered, so I can't fit a clamped or quill stem to it. I can swap the handlebars, with a lot of effort to remove everything, as the clamp is not a clamshell style, it doesn't open up. Cheaper folders have the handlebar welded to the riser, no changes at all. But the aftermarket has vastly increased for things like different handlepost risers and stems, so mods are a lot easier.

In general, bikes like mine where the handlepost and seatpost are not parallel, but diverge, means a longer "effective top-tube length" as both go up. But again, my handlebar position is fixed; Having the ability to swap different stem lengths would be good. That is Bike Friday's approach, posts are parallel, but the handlepost uses standard clamped-style stems.

I started with a folding bike, as a folder, but now it's my 100% daily bike. Granted, I don't MTB, and it doesn't have the speed or elegance of my old road race bike, but it's far more capable than typical folders. Basically, same capabilities as a Bike Friday New World Tourist, but at a tiny fraction of the price.

CrimsonEclipse

I actually have a folder with a telescoping seat post. (although I am not tall)
Folders are inherently more flexy, and longer seatpost and handlebar stems will also increase the flexy.
Generally not a problem unless you mashing out of the seat, but keep it in mind.

Try it out with the stock equipment and you might find out that extensions aren't necessary.

To gauge the seat height you might need, your inseam will be a useful measurement.

Note: weight is a common limitation on folders so check ahead of purchase.

Your ideas are fine and have been successfully completed on multiple folders before.

Best of luck!

edit:
and bike pics if you purchase!

Duragrouch

(OP) All good points above; Crimson is a longtime folder contributor.

I would also add:
- Telescoping handlepost/riser (the long verticle part between the head tube and handlbars, not a horizontal "stem"), are less rigid in general than fixed height handleposts, due to slight movement at the telescoping joint, but acceptable for many. My handlepost is fixed and tapered steel and very rigid, even when climbing out of the saddle, with heavy shopping loads. Its height is equal to a telescoping post at max height, and I like high, so perfect for me. Brompton ($$$$) uses all fixed posts, but available in short, medium, and high lengths, plus flat bars or deep bent bars that can swing fore and aft for more fitting.

My seatpost is the largest diameter I have seen, 33.9mm, so very rigid, even in aluminum. Bike Friday uses skinny telescoping steel tubes for both seatpost and handlepost (in order to use standard parts like typical stems and seatposts), which are inherently more flexy (fore/aft and lateral), but may offer a small bit of suspension on both due to the flex.

Ron Damon

Have you considered the Or!gami Lotus which -- if you believe the claim -- fits riders up to 6'3"?

Plainsman

Thanks all!!! I’m not a heavy rider (160 lbs / 72.5 kg), but my legs are long for my height (cycling inseam is around 35.5 inches if memory serves). I’m primarily a road cyclist, but dabble in gravel too. But I love riding all bikes, including the hybrid bike on trails. This would never be my primary bike (thus wanting to keep the cost low), but I ride very frequently, and my goal here is to have a bike I could perhaps keep at work under my desk (replacing a lunchtime walk with a ride on the nearby bike path), and also having something easy to take on trips that aren’t really cycling focused (camping, simple weekend getaways, etc).

I like your idea of getting the stock bike first. I was drawn to the Zizzo because it has a 33.9 seat tube which seemed compatible with most telescoping after market posts if I wind up needing one. I need to study the detail a bit on the handlebar clamp though. At 160 pounds max, I’m hoping seat tube flex won’t be too much of an issue though.

If money were no object I would be looking at a Bike Friday or maybe a Tern Venge, but I can’t justify anything close to that for a bike that will not be my primary ride. I figure some simple cheap tweaks (like even argon style bar end grips) will get me close enough to a riding position I’m used to and make those short rides fun though.

I really appreciate all of the feedback!

/

Plainsman

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. For the stem (although there isn’t really a stem per se on the stock bike)

, I was thinking of something more like the photo I’ve attached. I’m not sure it will work with the Zizzo clamp set up, but just trying to open up the cockpit a bit. I would also need to understand how the fold works. I race and ride with a lot of saddle to bar drop, so I have no worries about the bars being too low. I’m more concerned with the overall reach and sitting more upright than feels natural.

GeezyRider 

Zizzo sells a seat post that is 50mm longer than standard for $29.99.

https://zizzo.bike/collections/newes...810f920b&_ss=r

Schwinnsta

The handlebar has to rotate such that the brakes rotate up. The telescopic clamp is released, and the handlebar put in its highest position. Then the clamp above the headset is released, and the handlebar is dropped down. In this manner, the handlebar clears the front wheel drop out. After that, the main hinge on the top tube can be released and the bike folded in half. The magnets at the dropouts then can hold it closed. The stem and handlebar are trapped between the bike halves.

For what you want to do, you will need a clamping mechanism like Tern uses so you can align the stem vertically.

john m flores 

I have a Zizzo Liberte and it's been a great, low-cost entry into the world of folders. When my girlfriend lived in Washington DC, it was great for multi-modal trips to visit her, and we even did a ~30 mile ride around the perimeter of the capitol.

But if you're a racer and a roadie, it won't give that roadbike feel. For that, you'll need a Bike Friday or something similar. I purchased a used Pocket Rocket with the travel suitcase for around $700 last year and it's been a great bike. It has slightly larger 20 wheels (ETRO 451 vs 406) which isn't that big a difference but it really contributes to making the Pocket Rocket feel like a good steel, 700c bike. It doesn't fold too quickly or too compactly, but you might be able to do a quick fold that fits under a large desk.




If you're in the NJ/NYC area, I'd let you try mine. It might even fit you better than me as the reach is a touch long for me (I'm 5'-8" with a 30" inseam

CrimsonEclipse

I think your inseam shouldn't be a problem.
At 160, flex problems will be greatly reduced.

The stem clamp:
Yeah, it's a weak point compromise to help the quick fold.
I once cut off the clamp part, installed a star nut and installed a short threadless headset.
Made everything stronger but didn't really reduce the flex that much. That occurs over the full length of the stem and is difficult to engineer out.

Again, it may not be a problem. In the unlikely event that is becomes a problem, there are ways to mitigate/manage them.

Plainsman

Super kind of you to offer! I’m down in South Carolina so a bit away unfortunately. I’m watching a used Liberte right now that is going for $350 which sounds like a decent deal (not a screaming good deal, so I may wait, seeing the Zizzo Forte for under $300). I’m okay with it not feeling race like. I just love to ride. If it’s the difference between no ride at lunch or more of an upright ride than I’m used to, I’ll be fine with that. Quick and easy to fold /stow away is probably a more important consideration

Duragrouch

Under desk at work for occasional rides: Most Bike Fridays would be a poor choice for this, in fact the worst, unless you are talking about the Tikit/Pakit series, which fold and unfold fast and easy; All the other BFs are designed as travel bikes, to fit in a checkable suitcase, but the fold is messy; a) The rear triangle swings underneath like a Brompton, but the disconnect at the top of the seatstays takes longer, b) I'm not sure if the rear derailleur takes up all the chain slack like on a Brompton, c) the handlepost comes apart, not just swings down like on a Zizzo and others, d) the seat tube swings forward and comes apart. This was designed for minimum packed size, but with lots of loose parts.

A Zizzo ("bi-fold") is a quicker and neater fold, but not compact enough only folded for airline checked bag max limits (without oversize charge). My bike is that way, and I think I'll need to separate into 2 parcels for air travel. But it fits folded on the train luggage racks great. If that fits under your desk with the basic fold, great. Just about all folded bikes advertise folded size, if not for Zizzo, it's probably very close folded size to a Dahon Mariner, which is published. Your taller seatpost would only add a bit of height; all the way down, bottom of post to top of mounted seat, should be your tallest height when folded.

A 33.9 diameter seatpost should be plenty strong, if not some ultralight design. Mine is Dahon stock so heavy and thick wall. The more weak point is where the seatpost attches in the frame, a longer post puts more moment there, and some cracks do occur; Mine on an early Dahon steel frame before redesign, and some aluminum folders at the top of the weld gusset, however your weight is low, which helps. My seatpost "shim" (bushing) is reasonably long, but I've considered putting a similar shim attached near the bottom of the post, which would reduce the bending load at the top of the seatpost (spreading apart the mounting points, instead of the very bottom of the post more free to move forward), resulting in more aft shear and less moment.

The handlebar setup shown above is called a "double clamp"; That one looks beefy, but the vast majority of those sold on amazon are NOT strong enough for that, they are designed to only hold a short handlebar section above for accessories like lights. Syntace makes a strong one. Tern makes an even better strong one, with long levers that allow you to quickly adjust the tilt and fold, called Andros. This is designed to work with a welded T-top stem like you see. However it could also work with just a short handlebar center section clamped in a normal handlepost, but you need a section of handlebar with a center section that is wide enough there; Mine is, which allows me to mount a clip-on aero bar there, but it's not wide enough for both the aero bar AND a double clamp, which is what I want to raise the aero bar.

https://www.mybikeshop.com.sg/shop/b...n-andros-stem/

This is still a production part so should be available from Tern:

https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/tech/472/andros-stem

Ron Damon

I've written about this before in the context of finessing fit on my custom-build folders. You can use this type of 'stem' to extend reach, but another, possibly better approach, one that affords even more reach extension, is to use a riser bar tilted forwards. The other is to use a "banana" type handlepost that curves forward.

Duragrouch

I definitely get what you're saying. The forward-curved-banana handlepost on a Brompton, helps the fold, because it folds down to the outside (with curve concave inward). That would need to be looked at careful for other bikes to get it right, if folding to outside or inside, and which way the front fork is pointed with respect to the hinge orientation. I've pondered this for my bike, if I trade out the original handlepost, to get one with a clamshell top clamp or ability to use a modern clamp stem, for easy take-apart if packed tight for air travel. If I get it figured out, I'll post about it.

Does anyone make a long handlepost that adjusts for fore/aft tilt? Like perhaps akin to typical modern micro-adjust seatpost seat clamps, with small steps? That's a highly loaded part, the design might work. I can't think of other tilt adjustable designs that would hold up to the moment on a long handlepost. I'd say the double-clamp swing-style is easier, but for me, getting the flat bar set up right, and clip-on aero bars also set up right (high enough for comfort), and that should set me up for all conditions. I just emailed Profile Design, the 70mm risers/spacers that look perfect, they've told me are incompatible with both of my older bars, but I can't yet see why. I may need to use a sturdy double-clamp to raise only the aeros, which they also can't endorse, I think mostly because they don't make the part, the loading on the aeros is way less than on the flat bars.

jdogg111

350 is high for a used liberte. Good bike tho. Try craigslist, put in folding bikes, you may be surprised. On my liberte I added bmx style handlebars, which added 4 inches in height. If you need less, drop the adjustable telescoping stem down a bit. Highly adjustable. I've made quite a few upgrades so the bike is now around 22 lbs, not bad for a budget folder. Note that with higher bars the fold is not as compact, as I now take seat out. Fold in half and lay handlebars over the fold, still fits nicely in any trunk. Good luck!

Fentuz

I cannot add much other than tern has a telescopic seatpost to suit long rider.
i rider a helios with litepro stem and 32” inseam. There is more than 4” spare on the post before reaching mini insertion and as you are light(below 80kg), it should fine.

https://www.ternbicycles.com/uk/acce...copic-seatpost

Plainsman

Thanks, the good news for me is that my travel does not involve train or air travel. I just need it to fit under my desk, or in my car. I did find a long Tern seat post. It telescopes and fits in a 33.9 tube, and when closed is actually shorter than the standard post, for a win for the folded stored size!

Duragrouch

Interesting. Questions, for different reason: Is the top telescoping section round (no flat or slot to keep aligned), does it come completely out, or has a stop at top of travel, and what is the diameter of the top section? I ask because I wonder if any of the suspension seatposts would fit that; Thudbuster used to make a long 33.9 post for Dahons and the like, but no longer. But they still make shorter and smaller diameter posts. Thanks in advance.

Plainsman

Thanks. Yeah, you are right that $350 isn’t exactly a spectacular deal, but I do like this model the more I look at it. Honestly, at first I’ll probably just mod the seatpost and leave everything else as is to start (well, except the saddle). I expect to lower the bars, not raise them, so no worries there.

Duragrouch

If it comes with a telescoping handlepost, you should be able to lower it to your desire, it goes as short as it does for folding, and also to fit folks 4'8" tall (if same range as Dahon). Can't lower beyond that by cutting off the top of the lower section, it's tapered and the clamp is there. Shorter posts may be available aftermarket, but I can't see you needing one, unless you want a 1-piece handlepost, as long as it fits when folded.

Someone on here got a new Liberte for I think $299 on sale at target in NOV or DEC.

Also, the Libertes I have seen have the hollow-spindle crankset (not square tapers), and that's a big plus in my opinion, not just for weight but ease of bearing adjustment and durability.

Fentuz

no idea, however, i would not be surprised if it was a std 27.2 post going in a 33.9 which would give just over 3mm wall thickness.

Plainsman

Wow!!! If I saw a new Liberte for $299 I would jump!!! I don’t expect that type of deal during prime riding season but I’ll keep my eyes open. Best I’ve seen so far with discount is $450 before tax. But if you see that $299 deal let me know! ;-)

GeezyRider 

Zizzo offers the Liberte refurbished and certifed with 12 month warranty for $429.99 and free shipping. A refurbished and certified Forte is $30 less. I purchased a refurbished Liberte a couple of years ago and other than a small scratch on the frame (which had been touched up), looked and rode as new. At that time, I paid $399 for it.

Schwinnsta

Yes, the Tern telescopic post 33.9 takes 27.2 inner post. Here is mine with aThudbuster 27.2.