"Cycling & Track Racing, Vegan Style"
03-21-08, 07:54 PM
#126
partly metal, partly real
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https://www.vegan.org/
It just has no nutritional ADVANTAGE [benefit over not eating meat]. It's obviously a moral issue, and I've explained why I feel that it's backwards, IE wrong.
How can I make this any more clear to you? This is not a baseless attack.
One last thing, you must be privileged if you can pick and choose what and when you eat, especially if you can just not eat something as fundamental to the human diet as meat.
It just has no nutritional ADVANTAGE [benefit over not eating meat]. It's obviously a moral issue, and I've explained why I feel that it's backwards, IE wrong.
How can I make this any more clear to you? This is not a baseless attack.
One last thing, you must be privileged if you can pick and choose what and when you eat, especially if you can just not eat something as fundamental to the human diet as meat.
There is not a single dietary need that meat satisfies that plants cannot.
on the other hand, you can easily draw a positive correlation between liver or colon cancer rates and dairy and meat consumption.
but this isn't the time or the place, and tbh it really doesn't matter. the sooner you die of something, the better off we'll all be.
Last edited by sp00ki; 03-21-08 at 08:04 PM.
03-21-08, 10:28 PM
#127
is probably wrong
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03-22-08, 12:37 AM
#128
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Maintaining food production to match world population when non renewable resources become more scarce will be a huge issue latter in the century.
03-22-08, 08:21 AM
#131
im just better than you
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mazdaspeed i will answer your question or ideas one at a time since you put so many out there. after that i will bow out because this is going no where.
"It's because of their holier than thou attitude (such as the brooks is murder bs), and the fact that they usually oblivious to the fact that being a vegan is just another trend, enabled by their affluence and much higher and more comfortable living standards than [most of] the rest of the world.
Not eating meat just because you can afford to is pompous, and very condescending to everyone that doesn't live in a first world country. It's like saying "I'm too GOOD to eat meat, it's wrong", but really, what the f uck have they done for anyone else? It's selfish. "
i dont know who slighted you in the past and made you so hostile. yes there are tons of pompous vegetarians/ vegans out there, but for every one of them there is someone who eats meat believes in a god or thinks there political belief is as right. there is a larger question of why do humans divide things into categories and make you choose instead of all just living together to help one another(sorry if that sounds like hippy bull). i will agree that there are people out there that treat veganism as another trend, but there are those of us out there that have been vegetarian before we knew what trends were and when we heard about veganism and thought of it as the next step we took that step, because we thought it was the right choice. i dont understand how in this quote you call veganism expensive and only for those who can afford it, but then also say people who cant afford luxuries also eat a vegetarian diet. simple fact is this, vegetables are less expensive than meat. why? well because to get meat you need to give the animal vegetables to eat. its like a middle man of food. henry david thoreau said it best when he was talking to a farmer about what he eats. the farmer replies about eating meat and the bone from the large and strong animals he tends to. henry points out that he says these things while he walks behind an oxen that vegetables made his meat and bone strong enough to pull him and his lumbering plough through the ground. some things in life are necessaries and some are luxuries.
"Simple concepts eh? How about the concept of eating a chicken from a grocery store, and instead of saving the poor animals that are bred for food and too stupid to notice when their head is cut off because of their diluted genetics, donate the extra money that would be spent towards tofu and expensive dietary supplements to a charity that feeds people in Africa that are starving to death?I'm just saying if you want to talk about morals, being a vegan is utterly idiotic. It also has no nutritional benefit, thus it's pointless and that's why I don't like vegans.
Does that make sense?
The first thing it says is "helping the animals". I think it's a futile effort first of all, as well as morally backwards since I personally value the lives of people over livestock. That's just my opinion."
the moral argument is a nice thing to talk, so lets do that briefly. is it morally right to kill? i would say no. human or non human. is it right to force someone to be filled with things that"dilutes genetics", no. human or non human. vegans dont value a chickens life over that of a humans life. thats what you need to first understand. we think of life as life and that it is all equal. at one time people thought of african slaves as 3/5ths of a person. so they couldnt own property or vote. women use to not be able to vote, because they were thought of as less than a man. all life is equal and should be treated with such respect.
"Second of all, I didn't say there is "no nutritional value". Those are your words. It just has no nutritional ADVANTAGE [benefit over not eating meat]. It's obviously a moral issue, and I've explained why I feel that it's backwards, IE wrong."
why isnt there an advantage? you cant just state that and leave it as fact. please back this up with evidence. if you look at the american food and health food pyramid why is the largest section(read as eat more servings of) vegetables and grains? while sugars dairy and protein are very little? there must be some "nutritional benefit/advantage" to eating more vegetables and grains in your diet. why do people refer to vegetables as healthy food? and the doctor tells you to eat your greens?
"How can I make this any more clear to you? This is not a baseless attack.
One last thing, you must be privileged if you can pick and choose what and when you eat, especially if you can just not eat something as fundamental to the human diet as meat."
yes you are right we are privileged. we happen to be born in america, where over time we have been given(or taken)the freedom to choose what and when we eat. why is it bad if we choose to not eat meat. its our health that we are effecting. im not saying that we are the better nation because we have these freedoms. thats a whole different tangent i wont go down. i my self am not a wealthy man, and have found it easier to live on the essentials of fruits and vegetables to sustain my life. i work my ass off 40+ hours a week to put food on the table and feel that i have done well. im part of a community garden /farm that feeds to neighbor hood. and try to buy locally. i would say growing my own food and sharing it with the rest of the community is less selfish then going out to the grocery to pick up a chicken that grew in a factory.
to the poster of this quote
"Huge amounts of fossil fuel go into modern agriculture. Take away the (petroleum derived) fertilizer, tractors and forced irrigation, and you are left with a lot less food.
Maintaining food production to match world population when non renewable resources become more scarce will be a huge issue latter in the century."
you speak truth. but lets take that one step further. why continue to plant food for feed to animals if we dont need to eat them. animal grade feed is over half of what is farmed in america. take that away and then we have more food for everyone around us. also does the world population need to be as high as it is? i would say no. its not sustainable at this high of numbers and is part of the problem of all of this. less people means less mouths to feed means less resources used means a better planet all around.
this is where i end. thank you and have a good day. if people have any vegan nutrition questions i will be glad to filed them. leave me a PM and we can continue this.
XVX
jon
"It's because of their holier than thou attitude (such as the brooks is murder bs), and the fact that they usually oblivious to the fact that being a vegan is just another trend, enabled by their affluence and much higher and more comfortable living standards than [most of] the rest of the world.
Not eating meat just because you can afford to is pompous, and very condescending to everyone that doesn't live in a first world country. It's like saying "I'm too GOOD to eat meat, it's wrong", but really, what the f uck have they done for anyone else? It's selfish. "
i dont know who slighted you in the past and made you so hostile. yes there are tons of pompous vegetarians/ vegans out there, but for every one of them there is someone who eats meat believes in a god or thinks there political belief is as right. there is a larger question of why do humans divide things into categories and make you choose instead of all just living together to help one another(sorry if that sounds like hippy bull). i will agree that there are people out there that treat veganism as another trend, but there are those of us out there that have been vegetarian before we knew what trends were and when we heard about veganism and thought of it as the next step we took that step, because we thought it was the right choice. i dont understand how in this quote you call veganism expensive and only for those who can afford it, but then also say people who cant afford luxuries also eat a vegetarian diet. simple fact is this, vegetables are less expensive than meat. why? well because to get meat you need to give the animal vegetables to eat. its like a middle man of food. henry david thoreau said it best when he was talking to a farmer about what he eats. the farmer replies about eating meat and the bone from the large and strong animals he tends to. henry points out that he says these things while he walks behind an oxen that vegetables made his meat and bone strong enough to pull him and his lumbering plough through the ground. some things in life are necessaries and some are luxuries.
"Simple concepts eh? How about the concept of eating a chicken from a grocery store, and instead of saving the poor animals that are bred for food and too stupid to notice when their head is cut off because of their diluted genetics, donate the extra money that would be spent towards tofu and expensive dietary supplements to a charity that feeds people in Africa that are starving to death?I'm just saying if you want to talk about morals, being a vegan is utterly idiotic. It also has no nutritional benefit, thus it's pointless and that's why I don't like vegans.
Does that make sense?
The first thing it says is "helping the animals". I think it's a futile effort first of all, as well as morally backwards since I personally value the lives of people over livestock. That's just my opinion."
the moral argument is a nice thing to talk, so lets do that briefly. is it morally right to kill? i would say no. human or non human. is it right to force someone to be filled with things that"dilutes genetics", no. human or non human. vegans dont value a chickens life over that of a humans life. thats what you need to first understand. we think of life as life and that it is all equal. at one time people thought of african slaves as 3/5ths of a person. so they couldnt own property or vote. women use to not be able to vote, because they were thought of as less than a man. all life is equal and should be treated with such respect.
"Second of all, I didn't say there is "no nutritional value". Those are your words. It just has no nutritional ADVANTAGE [benefit over not eating meat]. It's obviously a moral issue, and I've explained why I feel that it's backwards, IE wrong."
why isnt there an advantage? you cant just state that and leave it as fact. please back this up with evidence. if you look at the american food and health food pyramid why is the largest section(read as eat more servings of) vegetables and grains? while sugars dairy and protein are very little? there must be some "nutritional benefit/advantage" to eating more vegetables and grains in your diet. why do people refer to vegetables as healthy food? and the doctor tells you to eat your greens?
"How can I make this any more clear to you? This is not a baseless attack.
One last thing, you must be privileged if you can pick and choose what and when you eat, especially if you can just not eat something as fundamental to the human diet as meat."
yes you are right we are privileged. we happen to be born in america, where over time we have been given(or taken)the freedom to choose what and when we eat. why is it bad if we choose to not eat meat. its our health that we are effecting. im not saying that we are the better nation because we have these freedoms. thats a whole different tangent i wont go down. i my self am not a wealthy man, and have found it easier to live on the essentials of fruits and vegetables to sustain my life. i work my ass off 40+ hours a week to put food on the table and feel that i have done well. im part of a community garden /farm that feeds to neighbor hood. and try to buy locally. i would say growing my own food and sharing it with the rest of the community is less selfish then going out to the grocery to pick up a chicken that grew in a factory.
to the poster of this quote
"Huge amounts of fossil fuel go into modern agriculture. Take away the (petroleum derived) fertilizer, tractors and forced irrigation, and you are left with a lot less food.
Maintaining food production to match world population when non renewable resources become more scarce will be a huge issue latter in the century."
you speak truth. but lets take that one step further. why continue to plant food for feed to animals if we dont need to eat them. animal grade feed is over half of what is farmed in america. take that away and then we have more food for everyone around us. also does the world population need to be as high as it is? i would say no. its not sustainable at this high of numbers and is part of the problem of all of this. less people means less mouths to feed means less resources used means a better planet all around.
this is where i end. thank you and have a good day. if people have any vegan nutrition questions i will be glad to filed them. leave me a PM and we can continue this.
XVX
jon
03-22-08, 08:33 AM
#132
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03-22-08, 08:38 AM
#133
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there's nothing fundamental or necessary about meat. the only thing that meat provides that plants won't is unnecessary cholesterol (usually coupled with excessive fat).
There is not a single dietary need that meat satisfies that plants cannot.
on the other hand, you can easily draw a positive correlation between liver or colon cancer rates and dairy and meat consumption.
but this isn't the time or the place, and tbh it really doesn't matter. the sooner you die of something, the better off we'll all be.
There is not a single dietary need that meat satisfies that plants cannot.
on the other hand, you can easily draw a positive correlation between liver or colon cancer rates and dairy and meat consumption.
but this isn't the time or the place, and tbh it really doesn't matter. the sooner you die of something, the better off we'll all be.
03-22-08, 08:38 AM
#134
partly metal, partly real
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03-22-08, 08:52 AM
#136
Run What 'Ya Brung
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I really don't know what else to say to mazdaspeed that I haven't already said. He genuinely seems too unintelligent to grasp the points being made here, because I've yet to see him successfully rebut an argument, just revert to name calling and ad hominem attacks. I mean, now he's assumed that the opening paragraph of vegan.org is reflective of the opinions of all vegans, and that somehow every vegan has a hand in African starvation. This is absurd, and you might as well tie veganism into the moon landing, or the assassination of James Garfield, or anything else that's equally unconnected.
How long can you go around in circles with someone who refuses to argue with reason or acknowledge when they're wrong? How many times can he change the subject or completely ignore you, yet continue to attack you and call you names? I suspect the pages in this thread will continue to multiply, as mazdaspeed lacks the understanding to know when he's been defeated.
How long can you go around in circles with someone who refuses to argue with reason or acknowledge when they're wrong? How many times can he change the subject or completely ignore you, yet continue to attack you and call you names? I suspect the pages in this thread will continue to multiply, as mazdaspeed lacks the understanding to know when he's been defeated.
Last edited by bonechilling; 03-22-08 at 08:58 AM.
03-22-08, 09:03 AM
#137
partly metal, partly real
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incidentally, how do you add people to ignore? i bet this thread would be a pretty cool read without his posts.
03-22-08, 09:04 AM
#138
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Yeah but what horrible direct side effects. And its considered addictive, oh and illegal in my country, morphine though... some might argue meat tastes better than heroin.
Wheres meat?!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dionisos-bacus/2262082241/
Wheres meat?!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dionisos-bacus/2262082241/
03-22-08, 09:11 AM
#139
Hello.
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It'll eventually annoy the crap out of you though, because it'll pop up with something like "You have chosen to ignore this user's posts" every time they post something.
03-22-08, 09:21 AM
#140
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Ha, you can't actually ignore a user's posts, you have to digitally invoke it.
03-22-08, 09:24 AM
#141
TARCK BIKE DOT COM
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HA IM BETTER AT READING A MESSAGE BOARD THAN YOU P.S. I EAT MEAT DOESNT THAT OFFEND YOUR VEGAN SENSIBILITES
urgh
urgh
03-22-08, 09:46 AM
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Eating at Aux Vivres today!
Anyone visiting Montreal, drop by this place for lunch, get a great raw veggie meal, ride away energized and without the feeling of a huge weight in your gut.
Who else tries to stick to raw meals on riding days? Something about cooked meals, even vegan, seems to give me a much greater chance of an uncomfortable stomach during my ride. Plus, I've got to snack nonstop so I eat fruits and whatnot along the way. Dropping apples n oranges into a stomach with some complicated cooked meal can stir things up
.
I wish I still had my iron stomach of yesteryear.
Anyone visiting Montreal, drop by this place for lunch, get a great raw veggie meal, ride away energized and without the feeling of a huge weight in your gut.
Who else tries to stick to raw meals on riding days? Something about cooked meals, even vegan, seems to give me a much greater chance of an uncomfortable stomach during my ride. Plus, I've got to snack nonstop so I eat fruits and whatnot along the way. Dropping apples n oranges into a stomach with some complicated cooked meal can stir things up
.I wish I still had my iron stomach of yesteryear.
03-22-08, 10:50 AM
#148
Thirsty
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I don't see why you people are getting so fired up over someone who's user name is MAZDASPEED. I mean, Mazda's are like, the COOLEST! Especially the fast ones, like MIATA'S!
03-22-08, 11:19 AM
#149
kinda useless.
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Just FYI, the Mazda Speed series of cars are actually pretty respectable compact sports cars and favor well in comparison to the VW GTI, Dodge SRT4, and other FWD sports cars. And the Miata/MX5 actually makes a pretty good track car.
had to put that out there.
Oh and I've been a vegetarian for 10 years now.
had to put that out there.
Oh and I've been a vegetarian for 10 years now.
03-22-08, 11:47 AM
#150
or tarckeemoon, depending
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The link was interesting. Otherwise this thread sucks.