bbnole

I am entering my third season in triathlon, all sprint distance so far. I am 39 years old, 188 lbs. I have an aluminum 2003 version of the QR Tequilo with full dura ace. My bike weighs around 21 lbs. I race in Florida on the east coast and there is always a breeze. I just did my first race of the season and averaged just over 20 mph for 10 miles. Here is my question, will carbon aero wheels like Zipp 303 or 404 help me on the bike leg? HED tri spokes? Light weight Mavic Kryserium Elite? I would like to get my average mph up to 23-24. How can I go faster on the bike? (obviously I know more training is the key, but I am looking for more aero). Would a lighter bike frame make a big difference? I am open to any suggestions. Thanks for your help.

StanSeven

Wheels are a good investment for speed. The general rule is the more aero, the better. Since you are on the coast side of Fl, hills aren't an issue. Where hills and climbing are involved, that's where the lighter weight of 303's over 404's come into play. But without hills, the aero benefits of 404's are important.

Bike weight is one of the most over rated things. Unless you are talking about extremes (25 lbs vs 16 lbs), bike weight is incidental. Wheel weight on hills does made a little difference, but that's it.

So consider aero wheels. There are lots to chose from. Also make sure your position on the bike is right. That are wheels are your best means of adding speed

cjbruin

I raced on 404's for the first time this past weekend and I loved them. I can't really tell you if they actually made me much faster but the course did seem easier than when I rode it in training. There was a lot of wind out there and I passed a lot of people who were running discs. I think they were having trouble in the crosswinds.

Also...you may want to consider an aero helmet. I have the Rudy Project Syton and I like it a lot.

Triguy

Lots of questions are in that post besides just race wheels.

First off, how to go faster on the bike...
1. Training, especially intervals. If you want to race fast, train fast.
2. Aerodynamics
3. Other Equipment

First, training. Train however you can consistently. Whether it be speed, heart rate or watts. Train in a way that prepares you to go +22mph, and also that you can track your improvement.

2. Aerodynamics -Below is a general list of effective aerodynamic changes in order of cost effectiveness.

a. Position, it costs 0.00 dollars and is the easiest way to get free speed.
b. Tight clothing - a loose jersey will cost far more than a set of wheels will ever gain you.
c. An aero helmet - yeah they look dorky but even Hed admits that an aero helmet is about as effective as one of their front wheels.
d. What the wind hits first(non-wheels) - a sleek basebar and fork

e. Finally _ WHEELS - They can save a lot of time, but they cost a lot so they do drop down the list. Now, my first suggestion is to consider the wheels in pairing with the tires as a system. Wheels are designed to work with certain tires. For instance Hed 60/90 and Zipp 404/808 work well with 20-22mm tires, Hed's new Jet 60 and Jet 90 C2 work well with 23-24mm tires, and Hed 3s work well with 19-21mm tires. Yes, tires make a huge difference. The tire is the leading and trailing edge of the wheel, it sees the wind first and last.

Fastest combination - Disc and Hed 3/808 front. I am much smaller than you and do fine with a set of Hed 3s. I don't mind running 20mm tires and so this works very well for me.

Do it all combination - Zipp 606/808 or Hed 60/90 or 90s. I think a disc should be the top choice for 95% of people. IT IS THE FASTEST WHEEL YOU CAN RIDE. However, for some reason people have their doubts. Believing in your equipment is always as important as the fact that it works. Unsure about a disc for whatever reason, fine choose a slower rear wheel.

Comfort is king - Hed Jet C2 90s - Hed took a huge step this year and integrated the wider tires we all love, into an aero race wheel. Michelin Pro Race 2/3s are the fastest rolling tires with decent puncture protection. However a 24mm tire mates very poorly at the rim joint with most wheels. Now 23-24mm tires can be fast. I think the C2s are the wheels of the future.

In my opinion skip the 303/404s. Weight is so insignificant.

cjbruin

Unless you have a nasty crosswind. Then you're screwed.

Also, they are not allowed in Kona...not that that affects most of us.

Triguy

Many people report better handling with a disc in the rear, has to do with surface area and placement. I originally rode a disc and gave it up when I went from tubulars to clinchers. I regret it. I had ridden in 30mph winds on my disc. Not just that, but windy conditions is when you gain the most from aerodynamic wheels.

I figure if/when he ever qualifies for Kona, the $600 for a Trispoke will be a drop in the hat compared to the flight, hotel, race entry, qualifier and other associated costs.

enginerd

my understanding of why a disc or deeper rim in the rear has a stabilizing effect is because in a crosswind, the rear will get pushed around more than the front which will turn you into the wind which will be more stabilizing than being blown away by the wind. So, I just ordered a 404 front/808 rear for IM Lanzarote.

Dalai

Something around the 60mm rim depth is good all round wheelset - i.e. Zipp 404, Hed Jet/Stinger 60. Wheelcover on the back (or second shallow depth standard rim with cover permanently attached) is a great compromise and has been stated as little performance difference from a normal disc.

I think Kona's wind conditions can be far worse than what most people will face.

When I first bought my disc, I'd pack the shamal rear wheel (I was racing on the older silver 41mm deep Shamals at the time) because of what I'd heard about discs and strong winds. Since buying the disc I have never felt the need to swap out the disc regardless of the winds...

Given the weight of the rider over the rear wheel it has never been an issue (I weigh ~165lb's) and in fact I've enjoyed the extra benefit of the 'sail' on the back.

bbnole

Thanks to all. You have really helped me sort through my wheel questions and guess I will look for a dorky aero helmet, although I think Rudy Project Zuma looks OK and is not too outrageously priced at $ 90. Thanks again for all of your input. I am glad I found this site.

Brett (aka bbnole)

bbnole

I have one additional question. What is preferable, tubular or clincher for Triathlon race wheels? Does it really make a difference?

Any comments on the Spinergy Rev-x wheels? There are a bunch on ebay all the time and they are very inexpensive compared to a hed 3 or xlab tri spoke wheel. Thanks again.

gervelo

I would go for the tubulars...I have never tried using rear discs...but is it true that you only feel the effectiveness of rear disc wheels if you are running 25mph or higher?

Triguy

First off, the tubbie/clincher thing never got answered fully... Clinchers to me are the obvious answer. Easy to change, faster if you choose the right tire, lots of options, better resale, less to carry for flat protection.

Discs are effective anytime you are going over 13mph on some accounts(hed, cervelo, zipp). Definately the average person(18-22mph avg.) has something to gain from a disc.

Rahzel

Agree. Clinchers, with LATEX tubes, are generally faster than tubulars. I run tubulars, but only because I got a killer deal on them. If I had $$$ to blow on aero wheels, I'd definitely get clinchers.

Disc wheels, aero helmets, and anything that is "aero" will help you at any speed. It's just a matter of deciding how much you want to spend! Your best bang for your buck is going to be (after fit, of course) the aero helmet (try to find one with a full-length tail and ear coverage), a tight skinsuit, and then aero wheels.

audiojan

East coast FL... done my fair share of riding there, so this is my experience... Always crosswinds and always gusty, so with my weight (160 lbs.) I would not ride a disc... I would probably pick a JET 60 or maybe a JET 60 front with 90 rear, but since you're a bit more than me, I would probably pick the EX (i.e more spokes) so you don't have to worry as much about stability and strength (especially those nasty potholes...).