Designing a City for Humans not for automobiles
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Designing a City for Humans not for automobiles
https://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/13/p....ap/index.html
"It's time we design cities for the human, not for the automobile," said Roberts, president of Connect Ithaca, a group of planning and building professionals, activists and students committed to making this upstate New York college town the first podcar community in the United States.
Unlike mass transit, podcars carry two to 10 passengers, giving travelers the freedom and privacy of their own car while reducing the use of fossil fuels, reducing traffic congestion and freeing up space now monopolized by parking.
At stations located every block or every half-mile, depending on the need, a rider enters a destination on a computerized pad, and a car would take the person nonstop to the location. Stations would have slanted pull-in bays so that some cars could stop for passengers, while others could continue unimpeded on the main course.
"It works almost like an elevator, but horizontally," said Roberts, adding podcar travel would be safer than automobile travel.
At stations located every block or every half-mile, depending on the need, a rider enters a destination on a computerized pad, and a car would take the person nonstop to the location. Stations would have slanted pull-in bays so that some cars could stop for passengers, while others could continue unimpeded on the main course.
"It works almost like an elevator, but horizontally," said Roberts, adding podcar travel would be safer than automobile travel.
#2
Bicycle Utopian
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 787
Bikes: Bianchi Campione d'Italia, Softride Qualifier, Ritchey Breakaway Cyclocross
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
These things combine the high cost and inflexibility of fixed guideway vehicles with the low occupancy of cars. I think these are a waste.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boise,ID
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think we should revisit neighborhoods of the past. Ones that emphisize walking or cycling as the main form of transportation. Good sidewalks, garages in the alley and lots of amenities and parks close by. Here is a link to where I live. Recently nominated by American Planning Assoc. as a great neighborhood.
Boise's North End.
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/...8/northend.htm
The rest
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/index.htm
Boise's North End.
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/...8/northend.htm
The rest
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/index.htm
#4
Pedal Power!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: England
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like the idea.
One problem of mass transit systems is that they have to run regardless of the level of occupancy. These would seem to run only when needed and not suffer from too few passengers.
Whilst cycling and walking are great (perhaps the best) transport, the idea is to convert car drivers to other ways of getting around and i think this is an attempt to offer the best of personal transport and mass transit from a car drivers perspective.
One problem of mass transit systems is that they have to run regardless of the level of occupancy. These would seem to run only when needed and not suffer from too few passengers.
Whilst cycling and walking are great (perhaps the best) transport, the idea is to convert car drivers to other ways of getting around and i think this is an attempt to offer the best of personal transport and mass transit from a car drivers perspective.
#5
Senior Member
Hadn't thought of it that way, but this is appealing. But I can envision myself riding or walking to the terminal and not finding any available pods to travel in, ever. It seems as though, if this became popular, there were need to be a massive amount of pods.
#6
**** that
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
30 Posts
i could see these at disney land & resorts, but that's about it.
but at least if these become real we'll be in "the future" - or something.
#7
Internal Cyclist Emerging
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 89
Bikes: Cannondale Adventure 5 (It's a start . . . )
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Kinda cool lookin'
Seems like a good idea. Maybe every family could get their own Pod, then there'll be no waiting. You get into your Pod and go where you want. Oh wait . . .
Seems like a good idea. Maybe every family could get their own Pod, then there'll be no waiting. You get into your Pod and go where you want. Oh wait . . .
#8
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
I think we should revisit neighborhoods of the past. Ones that emphisize walking or cycling as the main form of transportation. Good sidewalks, garages in the alley and lots of amenities and parks close by. Here is a link to where I live. Recently nominated by American Planning Assoc. as a great neighborhood.
Boise's North End.
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/...8/northend.htm
The rest
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/index.htm
Boise's North End.
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/...8/northend.htm
The rest
https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/index.htm
Unfortunately current zoning restrictions/laws in many areas keep these types of towns from continuing to exist. We owned a small retail store in a similar town. We wanted to put an apartment in over the store, another person wanted to convert a couple of the old buildings into apartments, but the local zoning board would not allow it. Apparently in the past somebody had attempted it but had allowed the building to become little more than a flop house with all of the associated problems. Now the downtown of this place is dead after 5 when all the office people go home. Sad commentary on that particular place.
Also need to bring back passenger rail and interstate bus service for the places where rail may not be available.
We also will not be able to continue to live the hectic lifestyle that many Americans seem to participate in. It will take a total social shift from the over scheduled super parents and kids to a slowing down and taking things at a less hectic pace.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Last edited by wahoonc; 10-17-08 at 06:29 PM.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You know what I want to see? I want to see the end of crap like this
I hate arterial roads. I hate how you're force to walk a half mile in one direction to safely cross, or run across the road and prey. I hate how they give you 10 seconds to walk across 6 lanes of traffic; I mean it's no big deal to me, but what if I have limited mobility?
I hate arterial roads. I hate how you're force to walk a half mile in one direction to safely cross, or run across the road and prey. I hate how they give you 10 seconds to walk across 6 lanes of traffic; I mean it's no big deal to me, but what if I have limited mobility?
#10
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
You know what I want to see? I want to see the end of crap like this
I hate arterial roads. I hate how you're force to walk a half mile in one direction to safely cross, or run across the road and prey. I hate how they give you 10 seconds to walk across 6 lanes of traffic; I mean it's no big deal to me, but what if I have limited mobility?
I hate arterial roads. I hate how you're force to walk a half mile in one direction to safely cross, or run across the road and prey. I hate how they give you 10 seconds to walk across 6 lanes of traffic; I mean it's no big deal to me, but what if I have limited mobility?
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Last edited by wahoonc; 10-18-08 at 05:38 AM.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,768
Bikes: Trek Mountaineer modified with a NuVinci; Montegue Paratrooper folding mountain bike; Greenspeed recumbent; Surly Big Dummy with Stokemonkey
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
As for the OP, Morgantown, WV, home of West Virginia University, has the PRT, so what is being planned is hardly new.
#12
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
We have interstate bus service. I agree with the rest of your statement, though.
As for the OP, Morgantown, WV, home of West Virginia University, has the PRT, so what is being planned is hardly new.
As for the OP, Morgantown, WV, home of West Virginia University, has the PRT, so what is being planned is hardly new.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
i got into this subject on the forums a while back.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...&highlight=prt
Nobody really came up with a reason it couldn't work.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
Complete The Streets Streets off of a dedicated free way need to serve ALL forms of transportation.
Aaron
Aaron
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
The beauty of light rail is that stops are located two blocks or further away. In fact, my lightrail has stops located nearly a mile away! This enables the train line to provide faster service because it takes only 20 minutes for the train to complete the same 5 mile distance. Trust me, people will walk half a mile to the transit stop if they know the trains are running every 15 minutes since there would be no reason to have a schedule anymore.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
No, they don't stop at each stop, the journeys are point to point without stops or changes, this is the beauty of the system. I've worked out it would be faster for my commute than a car, and about 4 times faster than the combination of light rail and bus that is offered as public transit. It should also have a much lower running cost.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I also like the concept but the idea that it would stop at every block would make it very slow. I've riden local bus lines that stopped at each block and in a crowded urban district, it would take 40 minutes to cross 5 miles. Not good at all.
The beauty of light rail is that stops are located two blocks or further away. In fact, my lightrail has stops located nearly a mile away! This enables the train line to provide faster service because it takes only 20 minutes for the train to complete the same 5 mile distance. Trust me, people will walk half a mile to the transit stop if they know the trains are running every 15 minutes since there would be no reason to have a schedule anymore.
The beauty of light rail is that stops are located two blocks or further away. In fact, my lightrail has stops located nearly a mile away! This enables the train line to provide faster service because it takes only 20 minutes for the train to complete the same 5 mile distance. Trust me, people will walk half a mile to the transit stop if they know the trains are running every 15 minutes since there would be no reason to have a schedule anymore.
#18
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
so instead of humans walking about, communicating with each other, maybe sitting side by side on a train or bus... or heaven forbid moving under their own power - they want to put in millions of $$ worth of infrastructure, computer guidance systems, raised tracks, and all these pods?
if we are designing a city for humans... make the human primary to the equation. change zoning to get more people closer to core businesses and services, and take the $$$ and operate buses every 15 min. for those that need to get further out of town. put in a tram to deal with the hills (ithaca is gorges) provide safe secure covered bike parking. keep the streets clean in the winter. keep cars to the periphery. complete the streets so folks can walk, ride, skateboard, rollerblade, scooter, whatever under their own power free from fear of getting run down.
i love ithaca. this thing will destroy the town.
cities for people, not machines.
who profits from this? who keeps it up? will it turn into the self cleaning bathrooms of nyc and san fran? who owns the pods? and who decides where the guideways go? ugh. say it aint so joe! i've got a bridge in alaska that needs building!
the town that gives us moosewood wants to put this in?
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
Your response is a good example of why this idea ( Personal Rapid Transit ) generates so much resistance, people scan it, see something in it similar to an idea which has not worked, and dismiss it. If you actually take a few minutes to absorb properly the concept, https://www.personalrapidtransit.com/ you will understand the advantages of the system
#20
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
I like the idea of cobblestone or cement street WITHOUT the dashed line down the middle. However, I would also allow for parked cars down both sides of the street because this would slow down traffic. I would widen the sidewalks making it 20 feet to cross from one street to the other.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
so instead of humans walking about, communicating with each other, maybe sitting side by side on a train or bus... or heaven forbid moving under their own power - they want to put in millions of $$ worth of infrastructure, computer guidance systems, raised tracks, and all these pods?
if we are designing a city for humans... make the human primary to the equation. change zoning to get more people closer to core businesses and services, and take the $$$ and operate buses every 15 min. for those that need to get further out of town. put in a tram to deal with the hills (ithaca is gorges) provide safe secure covered bike parking. keep the streets clean in the winter. keep cars to the periphery. complete the streets so folks can walk, ride, skateboard, rollerblade, scooter, whatever under their own power free from fear of getting run down.
i love ithaca. this thing will destroy the town.
cities for people, not machines.
who profits from this? who keeps it up? will it turn into the self cleaning bathrooms of nyc and san fran? who owns the pods? and who decides where the guideways go? ugh. say it aint so joe! i've got a bridge in alaska that needs building!
the town that gives us moosewood wants to put this in?
cities for people, not machines.
who profits from this? who keeps it up? will it turn into the self cleaning bathrooms of nyc and san fran? who owns the pods? and who decides where the guideways go? ugh. say it aint so joe! i've got a bridge in alaska that needs building!
the town that gives us moosewood wants to put this in?
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I didn't dismiss the idea. I just don't like the idea of having a stop on each city block. As the population increases, there will be people standing on each corner during rush hour. The system will become slow during the most important time of the day. I would like the system but with about 15 stops over a five mile route.
#24
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
What's the ridership of Public transit in your city? 2%? 5%? Most people don't want to use it for the very thing you celebrate, having to sit next to some random stranger. I'm not saying thats bad, but a lot of people won't do it.
Go for it. How long to get it done? How can we improve it in the meantime?
It will certainly change it, It will reduce car traffic to start with. Who pays for the transit system you have now? If like most cities, at least half is paid for by the taxpayer, PRT has the potential to be revenue neutral or even profitable.
Go for it. How long to get it done? How can we improve it in the meantime?
It will certainly change it, It will reduce car traffic to start with. Who pays for the transit system you have now? If like most cities, at least half is paid for by the taxpayer, PRT has the potential to be revenue neutral or even profitable.
umm. we are talking about designing cities for humans.... and while i concede that the title of this thread is 'designing a city for humans not for automobiles' it really is misleading - because we are not talking about designing a city for humans - we are talking about having technology save our @$$ again - how many times can we come up with some techno / industrial fix and realize we maybe should go back to simpler ideas of moving people about.... or better yet - redesign cities so people can use those functions of our bodies that have been developing and evolving over time - mobility, balance, a very efficient engine... and how long would it take to be sick of guideways, pod cars, all the adverts that would be on them... as long as it took to get sick of cars? would 'the wrong side of the tracks' get served with pod car stops? low income neighborhoods? or would these whisk the wealthy do gooders to and fro their suburban mcmansions?
so instead of getting in my car, pulling out of my drive and pulling into my garage @ work - i could do it in a pod? replace 1 form of overbearing, complicated, costly technology and infrastructure with another?
if these run on the ground (cheaper) how do peds and bikes get across / around? do they automatically stop for peds and bikes and kids and such? if they are elevated - will they guideways become eyesores? crumbling hunks of infrastructure that is to $$ to repair? what happens when one pod locks up and breaks down... podjam?
#25
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
take all the energy spent fantasizing about flying cars and put it into on the ground, in the trenches, low cost solutions. take all the $$ that someone wants to dump into a prt and spend it on improving what is already on the ground.