MoAlpha

Not to argue with anyone's experience, but, physiologically, the process is the reverse. The signaling for vasoconstriction in the extremities comes from receptors for blood temp in the hypothalamus. Once that process is in place, the extremties cannot warm because they aren't getting blood. The core, where blood flow has been partially redirected, needs to warm up first. This makes adaptive sense, since the system is "designed" to defend core temp at the expense of the extremities.

It is obviously important to protect the extremities, but when we treat hypothermia, we concentrate on the core and leave the extremities for last.

MinnMan

We are not talking about treating hypothermia. We are talking about what needs attention for riding in the cold. Much of the heat that you generate while riding gets generated in the core and is deposited there, and so the core needs less attention. It's common to feel cold at the extremities, where there is less blood flow and less heat generation, at the same time that one is building up excess sweat in the core.

It is true that one can have cold hands (or other extremities) early in a ride and that they can feel better/warmer as you put out more energy on the bike. If your core is cold, your extremities will be worse and warming up the core is of greater importance. But it's easier to feel warm in the core then it is to keep the extremities warm, and so these need greater attention when riding.

caloso

This isn't about hypothermia. It's about exercising in a temperature range where you might be sweating and yet your hands and feet hurt from the cold.

MoAlpha

Well stated.

I am so under-insulated and have so little thermal mass that I can feel my hands and feet start to go numb within a minute or so of backing off the pace on a ride, so I'm always thinking about the core, dreading the downhills, and happy to pull.

MinnMan

I think we wrote these comments in parallel.

Cypress

Over-insulate the knees, hands, feet, and neck - in that order.

A neck gaiter is worth it's weight in gold when the temps drop.

MoAlpha

I'm happy when they're still hurting!

However, I still think that insulating cold, bloodless, extremities doesn't help much on its own and after suffering for years with better and better gear, I have started to overdress a little and not open zippers and strip layers as fast. Not a perfect solution by any means and might make more sense for a small, skinny person such as I, than someone who loses heat slower.

MinnMan

Have you considered these?

MoAlpha

Yes indeed and used them in other settings. For better or worse, I dislike single-use stuff, particularly for 10 commutes a week. I also have electrically heated gloves, which are great, but they aren't ideal bike gloves and an expensive proposition for heavy use. I was a lot happier when I was commuting on a flat-bar bike where the brake levers were better suited to over-mitts. However, the bike was a dog in most other respects and I don't miss it. Bar mitts are also brilliant and I use them when the temps go below 20, but I don't like being constrained to the hoods for anything but short rides.

For the feet, I have a set of Lake winter boots and I don't think you can do much better in a rigid shoe.

I'm fast becoming a Zwift geek.

CAT7RDR

I look forward to cold morning rides in the winter when (please laugh) it is in the 30's in SoCal. The problem I have is after a few hours in the saddle it is in the 50's and I am a bucket of sweat. Add this to coming down a mountain and I am near shivering.

How do you best cope with this scenario as far as base layers? Wool vs synthetics? Layering? Bringing dry clothes along in a freezer bag? Crumpled newpaper? Other?

Carbonfiberboy 

The need for insulation and care of the extremities varies a great deal, from being able to ride bare handed in the snow, to Raynaud syndrome. I ride with a couple people with relatively mild cases of the latter. I happen to be fine with relatively light wear on my extremities, maybe from growing up in Fairbanks, IDK. One has to experiment.

Carbonfiberboy 

My post 10 covers it, I think. Main thing is everything on the upper body easy to blow air through except for the wind shell or wind vest. No wool except socks. Synthetics only. Wool dries too slowly. And take off the shell ASAP and unzip.

Besides the post 10 clothing, there's an equally good combo: Craft LS undershirt, SS jersey with relatively heavy fabric, and arm warmers over the LS Craft. Start in vest or jacket, depending, remove shell, roll down arm warmers, pull up sleeves. If it's going to get fairly warm, you can even go SS Craft, SS jersey, sun sleeves, arm warmers. Windproof arm warmers are fine because you can pull them down.

Lower body is easier. Usually leg warmers will be enough as the legs don't feel the cold as much. In Alaska, back in the day, girls went to school in nylons even below zero. Tall, thick as possible wool socks in the bike shoes, maybe booties over. Having the socks come up the ankles is helpful. Smartwool makes several thicknesses of crew socks. Sweating feet will not inhibit performance.

GadgetGirlIL

^^^This

I was on a ride a couple weeks ago where a man was riding with fingerless gloves and he was fine. I, on the other hand who have Raynaud syndrome, was feeling miserable in spite of my fleece gloves, hand warmers, and bar mitts. The culprit was the frequent stops (it was a site-seeing ride) we were making in 30 degree temperatures. I could not maintain my core temperature. I had been fine riding the 20 miles over to the ride start but I was in control of the pace and the stops (only for the rare car at an intersection as I started at 5am) during that time period. But this group's pace and very frequent stops was not working for me in 30 degree temperatures. I ended up departing from the group at the turnaround point and riding back on my own. I finally started to warm up after about 5 miles. Then the sun came out and it warmed up a lot so I had to stop twice to remove layers. Fortunately I had a bag on my rear rack that expanded enough to store the layers that I took off.

canklecat

I rode Tuesday evening with the temp at 33F and wind chill around 30F (hey, it's Texas, and we've already had several unseasonably cold days in October and early November). I intended to join a weekly group ride of 25 miles but decided to warm up first on a nearby route. I ended up going my own way for 20 miles. Turned out the few folks who showed up for the group ride bailed out after only 5-10 miles, so I ended up riding farther on my own.

This was my third ride in the inexpensive Outto windbreaker/fleece lined jersey/jacket. I wore a sleeveless Pearl Izumi baselayer (the 2012 era knit "Minerale" fabric, alas, no longer available) and thin Champion long sleeve baselayer (decent wicking fabric, nothing special, same as a dozen other brands).

My core was warm, no problems. Same perspiration wicking characteristics I've described before: the wind resistant front works effectively, while the fleece lining on the shell wicks moisture toward the mesh-like breathable fabric that's out of the direct wind -- armpits, sides, etc. Even the jersey pockets (single front zipper pocket; three open rear pockets and one zipper rear pocket) use the breathable fabric so while the inside of the jersey/jacket stays warm and dry, the jersey pockets become damp, same as the armpits and yoke, everywhere the Outto garment uses breathable fabric rather than windproof fabric. Very effective and comfortable although it may be appropriate to put our phones in a ziplock baggie. My phone had some external condensation but it didn't affect the operation.

Knit cap under my helmet with flaps over ears. Relatively warm and wind resistant cheap ski gloves with Thinsulate. Knicker length bibs, just below the knee, but only regular weight fabric, not fleece lined. Fleece lined full shoe covers over Fizik Tempo shoes, which have fairly minimal vents -- just small holes in the upper, no sole vents like my summer weight Scott shoes.

Long compression socks up to the knee. Another pair of socks over that -- a mistake. The extra layer and bulk compressed my feet too much and restricted blood flow so my little toes got chilled too soon. Sometimes less is more, and I need to leave more room in the toe box for circulation.

I headed home after 10 miles when my toes began stinging and then became numb. I knew by then the second sock was a mistake. If there had been a restaurant or someplace along the way to stop I'd have removed the second sock, waited for my foot to warm up, then resumed riding. But this was just a test of some new winter kit.

I need to remember to bring along a couple of those chemical warmer pads and thin aluminized Mylar emergency blankets. I usually carry those in my hybrid's saddle bag and my steel road bike's bag, but there isn't enough room in the Lezyne Road Caddy I use on my Trek 5900. I may switch saddle bags for winter rides to pack the few extra emergency cold weather things.

One problem that concerned me a bit with having cold hands was whether I'd be able to repair a flat tire. Hard to do if I can't feel my fingers. My bailout is Uber and Lyft but I'd rather be as self sufficient as possible. Having those chemical warmer packs might help warm up numb fingers enough to be useful for a flat repair.

Morning rides would probably be better. The temp often warms up a bit, at least on sunny days. With afternoon/evening rides, it only gets colder as we go along, potentially more risky.

MinnMan

Yes, this is a real worry, particularly in the deep cold. The sort of temperatures you are talking about don't trouble me, but fixing a flat at -10°F would be really hard. You don't have the needed dexterity with the gloves on and taking the gloves off, well, that's a non-starter. Having glove liners gives a window of workability - they allow dexterity and your hand doesn't freeze instantly, but it is a very brief time window. Fortunately, I've never had to - winter tires don't puncture as easily, and though snow and ice have their own challenges, they do have the benefit of protecting you from glass and other sharp objects. Bailing out with Uber or finding an indoor place to work might be the only solution. Around here, people understand that the cold can be a true threat, and I think that if I were in any kind of neighborhood, I could appeal to a stranger to let me use their garage.

Oh, this is also why most of my really cold winter riding is done in groups.

Actually, even using ones phone to hail an Uber in those temperatures is hard. You can't operate a phone wearing lobster claws. This is only possible with glove liners (with cell phone finger tips - of course).

canklecat

I forgot to mention an anecdote from decades ago when my jobs required a lot of travel around the US. It often took me up north to the states bordering Canada, or at least the Great Lakes region. It was always a tough transition if I was up there for only a day or so, but after two or three weeks I'd adapted pretty well to the cold.

On one trip to North Dakota in December my rental car at the airport wouldn't start. They neglected to hook up the usual engine warmer. I was dressed warmly enough but if I took off my ski gloves to fiddle with the engine warmer and battery my hands went numb and useless in seconds. With the wind chill it was around -20F.

The car rental clerk went outside to check. She looked like a Viking girl, blonde and stout, about like you'd expect from that region. She wore a sweater and knit mittens. She was outside for about five minutes. Came back in with reddened cheeks but seemed fine otherwise. Told me she didn't have any luck either. She called her boyfriend, a mechanic. He showed up wearing long sleeved coveralls, a knit cap, some regular thin work gloves. He was outside for about 30 minutes. Got the car warmed up and running. I tipped him generously. I'd have been passed out with hypothermia by then.

On another 3 week trip to Chicago in winter, for the first week I bundled up like the Michelin Man with everything I could wear. After three weeks, even though it was colder, I was down to a sweater or windbreaker. And when I got back to Texas I had to switch to shorts and t-shirts for a week because anything over 40 degrees felt stifling.

canklecat

Oh, and I've set my Android phone to voice command so I can holler at Google to make calls for me in an emergency.

Last year I was hit by a car, breaking and dislocating my right shoulder. For months I couldn't even reach into my own right side pockets, front or rear. I re-learned the phone, and still use it left handed. But I figured it's possible a crash or fall could make it impossible to reach the phone at all. So now it's voice command enabled. Works better in the front zip pocket of my winter jersey.

waters60

With my new MIPS helmet I don’t have the volume to fit a thin hat underneath as I had done for many years. I discovered the answer is a helmet cover, which drastically reduces the need for a warmer insulating layer. I would have said never a helmet cover but now it makes sense.

bobonabike

Lobster gloves! I have the Vaude Syberia II and they're flippin' brilliant.

Full control over brake lever, while your other fingers are warmer in the mitt. Room for a hand-warmer too.

B